How to best buy a Diamond Aircraft and afford the lifestyle

[SnowsnFlight]

Hello fellow pilots, I’ve been reading a few hundred of the threads on here in the last few months. Such a breadth of knowledge and experience; a lot of fun.

How did you make your Diamond aircraft happen? How did you justify the purchase? What would you do differently if you were again your younger self?

My family lives in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada so a rental pool doesn’t seem to exist. My flying club only has C172 or a twin Piper and they really don’t want you to travel with them.

My mission would be to have a Diamond aircraft to tour around Canada and the US but we also have a family property we frequent in the Okanagan which is in the interior of the Rockies.

I’m not sure if I will go for my IFR and fly over the mountains or along a preferred VFR route. My wife and are new pilots so we need to learn and grow our range and comfort. We just don’t know which Diamond to go with and how difficult it is to sell and move up when you are ready.

As a family and business owners we can probably afford a down payment of $200K US and afford payments up to a million but we just don’t think we would be able to justify the expense and the variable costs of the aircraft all to ourselves. Especially when it gets north of 500-750k and higher. I’ve thought about trying to find a partner or making a business case for it but we’re not sure where to start.

We think the DA40 would be good but we wouldn’t feel safe flying it VFR 3 hours through the mountains. So we have always loved the DA42 and of course the DA 62 would be amazing. In the perfect world we could travel with 3 adults and kid and a 40lb dog at max capacity. We thought about just taking a trip hire someone with Diamond aircraft to get us better acquainted.

I’ve researched aircraft choices a lot and always found I returned to Diamond, for all the reason you know.

Would you have any suggestions for us?
Any Canadians?

[Boatguy]

Make the instrument rating a priority before taking long cross country trips with the family.

[mhoran]

Absolutely get the instrument rating. It will make you a better pilot, reduce insurance rates, and will come in very handy. A challenge can be staying current. I have a membership to a club here in the city that has a couple BATD simulators, and I can head in there over my lunch break to get a few approaches. I also try to fly with a safety pilot as often as possible. For nearly all my cross country flights I file and fly IFR. In addition to increasing the utility of flying (unlocking additional flying days due to IMC), IFR simplifies flight planning by taking care of airspace and terrain avoidance for you.

Your load requirements will be a challenge for a DA40, especially a 50 gallon Lycoming model. These planes have an aft CG limitation that would make loading very difficult, even if you can get the weight under the limit (and I'm not sure you could even do that.) I am less familiar with the 40-NG, but I suspect you'd face a similar challenge.

The 42 might be a better fit for your mission, both from the loading perspective and for mountain flying. I flew my DA40 around the US last summer -- an amazing experience you can read about on the forum -- but it left me wishing I had at least a turbo-normalized engine. This flight was made with just my partner and I (with luggage for three weeks of travel, we were close to gross weight). Climb performance above 10k feet was quite poor. Maintaining altitude over the mountains with very little mountain wave turbulence was also a challenge. The utility of flying an NA aircraft over the Rockies is quite limited, at least with four cylinders. I know many others who have regularly made similar flights in a 42 with no issue.

Note that another challenge will be icing. The DA40 has no icing protection option. The 42 does have FIKI. However, I've been advised by many that the use of FIKI in any piston airplane should be considered only for its utility in getting out of icing conditions, and not for extended periods in icing conditions. So this may be limiting for your mission profile.

We bought our DA40 used, and I would recommend that. This will save you significantly versus the acquisition cost of a brand new airplane. It will also save time (Diamond's order book is years out at this point), and headache. By the latter, I mean that a used plane should have already had all manufacturing defects sorted out. While Diamond makes a great plane to fly, their QA leaves much to be desired. Let someone else deal with that for you. You may not have a warranty, but that hasn't been an issue for me.

Used Diamonds also provide alternative engine options. There's a wide range of DA42s out there. You will have the option of an Austro or Continental engine. Continental engines have two available models -- the CD135 and CD155. We have many happy Continental powered 42 owners on the forum. With a used airplane you will need to take into consideration cost of engine replacement and set aside the money for that (or budget into your hourly rate.)

Avionics in the used market can be a bit tricky. All used DA42s will have the G1000. Early DA40s will not. Some will have the KAP140 autopilot. Some will have the GFC700, fully integrated into the G1000. Some G1000 airplanes will support WAAS, others will not. You will need to take a look at your mission to decide which of these features is most important. I'm also not sure how these options align with engine options above. However, it is not currently possible to order WAAS upgrades for legacy G1000 airplanes. There is also currently no upgrade path from legacy G1000 to NXi. This is not currently an issue, but it could be some day when Garmin can no longer repair legacy G1000 components.

Maintenance wise, you should always be prepared for the worst, and be happy when things are better than that. For the first few years of ownership, we had very few headaches and low maintenance bills. The past couple of years have been a real challenge -- with an engine overhaul, replacement nose gear strut, and other large expenses. The great thing is, the more I fly, the cheaper it is -- especially versus renting. I got in over 130 hours last year and it was amazing. Looking forward to another exciting year of flying in 2024.

Trading up a Diamond is also a very feasible option. It may make sense to start with a DA40 to bang out the IFR and upgrade when the time comes. Used Diamonds hold their value very well. In fact, ours has nearly doubled in value.

I own my plane with a friend. We learned to fly together and have been at the same stage throughout our flying careers. Our friendship goes back to our college days and we (and our families) get along well. This is very important. I know some partnerships that have gone very poorly -- so finding a good partner is very important. Given what you've described above, it seems that owning yourself is attainable, especially a used airplane.

Hope that helps and good luck!

[Fred Claus]

Personally, I'd feel more comfortable with two engines (42 or 62) when flying in mountainous terrain. Especially with family where you're likely going to react differently in an engine out scenario than you would when flying alone... That said I have 0 hours in a DA40 and think a lot of more experienced users could give you their view on personal minimums and general comfort as it relates to the DA40 and singles in general.

As for how to buy a plane, that is going to be an extremely variable question. Some pilots in the US can justify it as a "business expense" if they use it regularly in their business, and that allows them to depreciate the plane very quickly (just a couple of years I believe). Those who fly as a hobby don't have that option. I'm sure Canada is unique in how it views that as well.

Some flight schools may consider leasing your plane from you if it benefits them. For example, a twin trainer, like a 42. I'm sure there are different ways to structure it, but one way would be for you to buy the plane (presumably used), then sign an annual lease agreement with the school allowing them to train students in it but giving you some sort of preferential scheduling rights to the plane's schedule. That would grant you some flexibility in planning your personal trips. You'd want them to cover the maintenance costs as twin training is pretty rough on the engines with constant "engine outs". Your plane would also be subject to the abuse of student pilots (accidental stains in the cabin, hard landings, etc...) which may or may not be a big deal to you. I'd stay away from the 62 if you go this route as it will be more expensive to insure but provides no added benefit to the flight school.

The good news is that you'd likely get a break on the insurance component since the school would have the plane under their policy. For a low hour pilot who isn't instrument rated yet, the policy covering you in a twin with retractable gear would be astronomical (~$30-90K USD per year until you get more hours and ratings).

With respect to your 3 adults + 1 kid + 1 40lb dog scenario, I think you'd find that difficult to accomplish in anything but a DA62 if you wanted to go the Diamond route. The 42 is very nice but that would get cramped in the back if its even possible at all.

[dmloftus]

I second Matt's recommendation on starting with a used DA40, get your IFR, log lots of hours locally and on short trips, then move up to your ultimate travel machine. You don't want to buy more plane than you can handle as new pilots and you probably don't want to pay the astronomical insurance rates that come with a low-time pilot in a high-performance aircraft. If you buy a well-maintained DA40 with 800-1000 hours, you can easily put a few hundred hours on it and sell it for what you put into it. You've probably checked Trade-a-Plane and other sites. Diamonds continue to be in high demand.
I'm a 1000-hour pilot and I paid cash for a used DA40XLS 4 years ago with about 950 hours on it. I'm the sole owner and I absolutely love it. I've flown it all over the US, Grand Canyon, Rockies, etc. I got a good deal and Vref says the value has gone up >$100K since I bought it. I'm lucky to have the means to pay cash for a new DA50 or 62. But I'm still very practical and spend my time, energy, and money wisely. I'll wait until Diamond and other early adopters on this forum (thanks guys!) wring the bugs out of them.
Would I love FIKI, Nxi, another 200 pounds of useful load, and another 50kts airspeed? Absolutely. But for all the challenges of owning any aircraft, this is a wonderful plane. I don't like Cirrus's spring-loaded sidesticks and all the top end issues they have with their big Continentals. I loved the TTx but, alas, Cirrus outmarketed Cessna and they canceled it. The Pipistrel Panthera is a cool looking machine, but back to the early adopters concern.
Happy to share more thoughts if you'd like.

[TimS]

Like others, I agree. Get the IFR, and start in a used DA-40 if you want a Dimond. This will get you the ownership experience, along with the starting to learn weather ADM which will be critical in your long term safety.

I live in New England now, and have flown a N/A SR22 around the Rockies multiple times. I admit flying an Aerostar over the Rockies was a lot easier than the SR22. Unless in a pressurized airplane when I am flying out west, I am flying the non-regulatory IFR system. IFR => I Follow Roads. From a practical standpoint what this means is very rarely do you have to consider higher altitude (as in needing O2) passes, mountain waves... You are usually flying down wide open valleys at altitudes anywhere from 6K to maybe 12K in a few places.
It takes longer, it is not a straight path from here to there. But it is generally safer, and I think a lot more interesting view.

Last point, even with the weight penalty, I probably would go with the DA-40NG in Canada to avoid avgas.

Tim

[Chris]

If you are based in Edmonton, I'd highly suggest getting in touch with Ed McDonald. He's the president of the Diamond Pilots Association and flies a DA62 out of CFB6.

I've flown a DA40 across the US Rockies a few times and much prefer flying the DA42 when making that trip. I don't know the routes through the Canadian Rockies, but they look formidable between Edmonton and Kelowna. If you're serious about three adults, a kid, and a 40lb dog, then I think the DA62 is the only thing that will make that work.

I agree with everybody else that getting an IFR rating is important if you're making trips with the family. I would add that a mountain flying course would be beneficial as well. And most importantly, don't think that being permitted to fly in IMC is going to give you the ability to cross the mountains in nasty weather. Here be dragons. The more I experience I get, the more respect I have for the micro-climates that exist in mountainous terrain at the altitudes where our little piston airplanes can fly.

[TimS]

Chris,

Good point on the mountain flying course. I did an online one which covered the basics, and made the simple decision to follow roads, and fly VFR only. Sure I miss out on some things, and do not use the plane to its ultimate capabilities, but I am just not in the larger mountains enough to not take a very conservative approach.

Tim

[FlyingPenguin]

Just some of my thoughts here.

Like others have said, IFR a must. Do lots of cross country flights first, perhaps with a safety pilot, before carrying family.

For the load, DA62 is your choice. If you can pick up a DA42-VI with 1999kg max gross weight, you might be ok, depending on weight of all passengers. DA40, sorry, not going to work.

I would say TKS ice protection a must. Sure, you don’t expect to use it, but you just might need it. I been there, so glad I had TKS!

Lastly, buying the plane is one thing. Keeping the plane running and dealing with all the squawks is another. Make sure you are ready to take that challenge.

Best of luck!

[SLB_DA40]

Can't disagree with anything said above. As a low time PPL (last September vintage) I will add a thought for your consideration. First Plane VS Forever Plane. I believe the DA40 is an ideal first plane for a low time pilot. For one thing, you will be able to insure it. Insuring a low time VFR pilot in twin retract might be very difficult if possible at all.

As detailed above, it won't meet your longer term mission. That is not a mission I would launch LOW TIME, single pilot, VFR, single piston. Buy a used DA40 for IR training and experience building. By experience, I don't mean just flight hours but OWNERSHIP experience. There is a lot to it.

As to how to afford, many of us here (including myself) set up a partnership with a buddy. Half the price, half the workload, built in safety pilot, and the engine doesn't sit around corroding half as much.