DA42 vs BeechA36 or Cirrus for long distance

[michael.g.miller]

Also I've crossed the NAT in both a Cirrus and DA42. Both are doable - Avgas is usually in decent supply across the region, with some exceptions (like when they ferried DC-3s, some Greenland airports ran out of gas.). Of course make sure you get proper training if the worst happens (Survival Systems in Groton has the best dunker class in the world). And get proper safety equipment (no Gumby suits.. only the $2k Switliks.. and a real $4k Winslow covered raft).

Happy to chat more about the crossing process if you want to shoot a message.

[Roxiedog13]

To be honest, I think if crossing the ocean, or any large body of water, survival gear is a must, twin engines or not. I'd love to discuss in more detail with you because you are the first to suggest Avgas is not a huge issue, most say it is scarce in Europe. I live on an Island BTW, NL Canada, so every time I need to travel anywhere outside of the Province, I'll have to cross open water, 90 miles or more. I crossed this gap twice this year in my Cessna 172 float plane , it's funny how the engine instantly starts making phantom noises once committed. The floats are useless for landing on the ocean most of the time, other than something to hold onto, they really don't help to make the flight safer. A second engine would certainly help to alleviate the mental insecurity without a doubt, but having the correct survival gear and training could also help to alleviate the mental insecurities. At least the Cirrus has a parachute, you are almost guaranteed to not invert, thereby making the egress process more survivable.

[Roxiedog13]

I came from an SR22 to a DA42. My thoughts:

- While a lot of people praise the Austro engines, I have had a lot of trouble with them... thermostat, prop governor, wastegate actuator. Getting parts from Austro is a pain, so I end up carrying a lot of spare parts. While it's a very manageable plane single engine, you REALLY need to make sure you're comfortable single engine, there's a nontrivial chance that you'll end up actually having to land with one.

- That said, quietness of the engines is nice, FADEC is nice, and fuel availability is unbeatable. I flew my DA42 around the world with almost 0 issues with fuel. So easy.

- The comfort on the DA42 SUCKS. I am 6'2" and barely fit. I spent a fortune (~$15k) adding reclining seats because I couldn't fit otherwise. Oregon Aero seat cushions are mandatory, the seats are like a steel frame otherwise. My head hits the canopy in turbulence. the DA62 solves most of this, but is also 3x the price on the used market ! The SR22 is downright cavernous by comparison.

My verdict...
- SR22 hands down if Avgas availability is not an issue, and you're staying over hospitable terrain for most of the flights. It's a much more comfortable cabin inside. (That said if a DA62 is in the budget, you can ignore the cabin comfort issue.)
- DA42/62 if you're routinely flying to remote places where no Avgas is available.
- DA42/62 if flying over open ocean regularly.

I'm actually going to try on a DA42 and DA62 within a week, and I pretty much know which one I will prefer, the cost for the same will not be preferred. You are 6' 2" I'm 5' 9", but I have a super long torso and big glutes( aka big ass) which essentially makes me taller than most.....when seating. I was driving with a 6' 2" friend just yesterday and I'm looking down at him so I'm guessing the DA42 seat height is going to be an issue for me, we shall see soon enough. If it's not comfortable, then it will not work, I get fatigued in my Cessna 172 after a couple of hours, flying around the globe I expect legs of at least 4 hours so comfort is high on the list. How did you manage to fly around the world in the DA42 if you didn't find it comfortable, that must have been a challenge ?

[michael.g.miller]

Oregon Aero seat cushions make it tolerable.. did some 8-9h legs without much issue. It's just not comfortable / luxurious in the same way that a Cirrus is.

Regarding Avgas, I probably do agree with most people you've talked with in that it is more challenging than JET-A. You basically have to fly a well-defined route (CYYR/CYGL -> CYFB -> BGSF -> BGKK (if you're OK with gravel...) -> BIRK -> EGPC). Any deviation outside that will be a hassle. Avgas anywhere north of La Grande / Goose Bay is in barrels where available.

So if your goal is to be able to cross the NAT, you'll do it no problem in an Avgas plane. If your goal is to explore Nunavik/Nunavut communities... well, you definitely need a JET-A aircraft for that!

[Roxiedog13]

Well, I managed to try and a DA 42 and DA 62 for size, also set in the DA 40. Suffice it to say the DA 42 would be a challenge for me to fly for long periods, number one my 5‘9“ Land torso body has less than an inch between my head and the canopy, any turbulence would be uncomfortable. Add to this the shoulder with, there’s really just no comfortable place to put my left arm when relaxed, to be honest, not much better for my right arm. The DA 62 certainly provided that additional, head room and shoulder room, overall l now understand the cockpit limitations for both. I also sat in a. Cirrus SR22 , much closer to the DA 62 overall, certainly plenty of headroom.
Didn’t get to fly either of them, that will have to be the next goal, if a twin engine is a definite must, I’m still considering the single engine alternatives. By the way, somebody mentioned a piper Meridian turbine. This company just happened to have one for sale. It’s an older version, a 2006 I believe. Plenty of room in the cockpit, certainly plenty of room for the additional for passengers and luggage. This aircraft is still less than the cost of a new DA 42, considering it’s only halftime on the engine, pressurized and fast it’s definitely a decent option. Fuel burn is a downside, but considering you scoot along at 260 knots, The saving on Purchase certainly could pay for a lot of fuel.

[Nikandsteve]

We have both a 2023 DA42 and just sold our 2018 Sr22T. Sorely miss everything about the Cirrus (it was out of warranty so sold it) The Diamond is a good twin but prefer The Cirrus for comfort, hauling passengers, speed and so much more. Can anyone really take 4 people in the Diamond? Doesn’t pencil out.

[ememic99]

We have both a 2023 DA42 and just sold our 2018 Sr22T. Sorely miss everything about the Cirrus (it was out of warranty so sold it) The Diamond is a good twin but prefer The Cirrus for comfort, hauling passengers, speed and so much more. Can anyone really take 4 people in the Diamond? Doesn’t pencil out.

I used to fly full fuel with my family when the kids were young (secondary school). We're fairly light and total weight of 4 of us was below 220 kg. I don't know M&B calculation for -IV; my MTOM is 1785 kg with empty mass 1350 kg.

[mfdutra]

Can anyone really take 4 people in the Diamond?

Time for a DA62. It replaces the Cirrus quite well.

[MackAttack]

I also flew a Piper M600 (basically a Meridian with a bigger wing and more fuel/range, plus a higher VMO of 251 KIAS). Loved it - we just sold it last November. The M600 and Meridian cabins are identical. The passenger cabin is REALLY comfortable in the Meridian … I loved being back there. Pressurization is a game changer for long flights plus in that airplane (with the RVSM STC) you can fly up to 30,000 if you’re willing to have a cabin at about 10,600’ elevation. I love those planes - great value for the performance. Getting in and out of the cockpit takes some practice (the Meridian “wiggle”) but you get used to it and it’s super comfortable once you sit down. You burn 38-40 GPH in the Meridian, can go 900 nm without a fuel stop, and gain an additional 80-90 knots over the 62/42/Cirrus. No need to use cannulas for supplemental oxygen.

The SETPs are much more complex aircraft with more complex systems and more expensive maintenance overall, in addition to higher fuel burn (offset somewhat by faster Point A to Point B times of course); but you’ll burn roughly 2.4-2.5x the fuel per hour vs. a Diamond twin, and you’ll go 1.4-1.55x faster in the turbine. If it takes 3 hours in the Diamond, it will take 2 hours in the turbine, generally speaking (plus or minus, that’s not exact and depends on other factors but a good rule of thumb). That means that the trip will use 45 gallons of jet fuel in the Diamond twin (assuming 15 gph) vs. 80 gallons in the turbine (assuming 40 gph in the Meridian, which may be a wee bit high but you do burn at a higher rate on takeoff and in the climb in a turbine). So, roughly 2x the fuel cost plus higher MX costs. Insurance costs are higher for the turbine and with typically mandatory recurrent training which costs a bit also. Benefits are much better performance, pressurization, and passenger comfort. Pilot comfort is similar. Note that none of these planes can “fill the seats and fill the tanks” so you’ll always balance fuel and range vs. passengers and baggage.

Final point: I would prefer a SETP to a piston twin over any body of water for an extended period of time. Turbine engines are much more reliable. But I would carry survival gear either way.

Hope that helps… if you’re serious about a Meridian, we can chat offline. I love my 62 and it fits my missions better right now but I’m not gonna lie, I miss the pressurization … *laughing*

Cheers

[Fanta$01]

As the heading says, I’m thinking about flying abroad, possibly crossing the Atlantic and I’m wondering if others have done the same with the DA 42. I’m considering high-speed singles as options but the thought of flying over open Water long distance, IFR, and night flying make pause and give thought for a twin engine option. If others have travelled great distances with the DA 42 and can share some of their thoughts and experiences it would be greatly appreciated. I don’t have a twin engine rating, nor IFR, that is going to happen over the winter months . I have about 1000 hours PIC fixed wing singles, mostly bush/float flying to be honest. Next week I’ll be checking out a DA 42, I don’t expect to purchased immediately, but that could happen. I’m more likely to check out the alternatives first, spend the winter compiling data on all of the alternatives, the costs, insurance, and other complications that could arise during international travel. So please do add any comments, all would be appreciated. I love to have as much feedback as possible, positive and or negative it all helps.
Cheers. Robert

Exciting plans! I haven't flown the DA 42 for long-distance overwater trips, but I've got a fair share of hours in high-speed singles. Consider reaching out to forums or groups with DA 42 owners—they might offer valuable insights on the aircraft's performance and experiences in transatlantic flights. Best of luck with your evaluation process and the upcoming winter training for twin and IFR ratings!

Safe flying,