noob Q about 07 da-42 on controller

[JCOiii]

Asking here because the listing has engine as "2.0 diesel/jet-a fadec engines"

Both engines are at 2740.7 TT (with tbo at 2,000). I know nothing about engines, I don't own my own plane. I'd like to get into a -42 sometime. but my question is this- can you run these engines that long? and when should you replace them? can you overhaul or must you replace? what does that cost (roughly)?

Sorry for the noob stuff, I just don't quite know the terminology to use in my google-fu.


Thanks,
JC

[mhoran]

It looks like that listing is for a DA-42 with original Thielert engines. Thielert is no longer in business, though their IP was purchased by Continental, and Continental is manufacturing engines that are used in some DA-42s as well as the DA-50.

My understanding is that overhaul was never a possibility for Thielert engines, nor Continental engines, and only exchange replacement is available. It looks like the cost to replace with CD-135 was $137k in 2020 dollars, or upgrade to CD-155 at $231k in 2020 dollars: viewtopic.php?p=83253#p83253.

In the US, part 91 operators are allowed to operate "on condition". That is, TBO is not required. So long as the engines are working, then all is well. However, parts availability is limited, as Continental is no longer manufacturing parts for these engines (see viewtopic.php?t=7108). I also recall reports of some mechanics being hesitant to sign off on these Thielert engines, despite the TBO being optional.

So this may be a steal, or it may be a money pit. You may be able to fly it home and then find yourself needing all new engines. Which will be hundreds of thousands of dollars, plus many months of downtime.

If it is N767SA you're looking at, this plane also has the KAP140 autopilot and non-WAAS G1000. Both of these are at a dead end. The KAP140 is not supported by G1000 NXi, nor is there an upgrade path for the DA-42 to G1000 NXi. You will have difficulty finding WAAS upgrade for the legacy G1000 as the GIA63W needed for the upgrade is no longer manufactured by Garmin. There may be an upgrade path in the future, but expect that to be at least as much as the engine replacement.

If you are okay with the above, then at the listed price this could be a great plane. But it is going to cost a lot to maintain going forward, and presuming it was in a flight school, it may have some significant wear and tear. However, that alone shouldn't scare you away, if you can get anything that is broken fixed for a reasonable price (or further price reduction). Also, being operated in the desert for some time means it likely won't have much corrosion issues, which is common on the DA-40 and 42, particularly within the carbon fiber.

[Boatguy]

Welcome!

Is that the plane in Scottsdale, AZ? If so, the information is very sketchy.

Look up the tail number in the FAA database: https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquir ... berInquiry

Read this stuff in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_D ... r#Variants

Long story short, these are Thielert diesel engines that were used by Diamond until the company went bankrupt and Diamond developed their own engines (Austro). The good news is that Continental bought the company (Thielert) and provides good support. There are certainly advocates for these engines in this forum and you may well hear from them. You can also search for threads about Thielert. Irrespective of the general opinions, I suspect that at 2,740hrs, everyone will agree that the engines need to be replaced or overhauled.

The bad news is that the avionics in that plane are sort of frozen in time and not so well supported. It also most likely does not have WAAS which limits your instrument approach choices. There are lot of threads here about WAAS vs no WAAS.

Best of luck!

[JCOiii]

Thanks folks. Yeah I’m not looking to buy anything at this time. But it seemed like the type of deal that I’d look at in the future. But I don’t know what I don’t know. By which I mean I don’t have a knowledge base good enough to even know what questions to ask. So your answers help me start knowing what questions to ask

Thanks again!
JC

[DerekM]

Mhoran, thanks for all that info. To clarify, is it $231k/155 engine in 2020 or is that for two engines? If it’s for 1 engine then there definitely isn’t any value for money whatsoever. It’s just so much more than buying a lycoming io360 (equivalent avgas engine) that is already so much more expensive than an equivalent automobile engine.

[mhoran]

That's for both engines, and the CD-155 conversion included new props.

Personally, if it weren't for the G1000 situation, if I were up for a project I'd consider this. But to put in all that money and be left with an uncertain avionics future just seems a bit too risky for me.

Glenn at SouthTec in NC is in the process of refurbishing four similar 42s. They're beautiful.

[mhoran]

Some other thoughts from owning a similar vintage DA-40.

At 2700+ hours, the 1000 hour bonding check is just around the corner. The cost of this inspection is low, but the squawks it can turn up (especially if there is corrosion within the laminate) can be expensive to repair. I would have that performed as part of the pre-buy.

Interestingly, it seems that since the DA-42 type certificate is still held by Austria, the major structural inspection is still a chapter 5 item. For the DA-40, this was moved to a chapter 4 (required) item when the TC was transferred to Canada. It is also a required item for the DA-62. It is very likely as a chapter 5 item that this inspection was not performed at 2000 hours. I would also have this performed as part of the pre-buy. It shouldn't be expensive, but again may turn up expensive squawks.

The KAP-140 is a bit of a double edged sword. It is not compatible with the G1000 NXi, but there's no way to install the NXi in this airplane. It is compatible with other navigators, though I'm not sure if any of them are certified for the DA-42. Unfortunately it seems the G3X is not approved for the DA-42. I'm sure some day there will be an upgrade path here, but it may require a whole new autopilot. As mentioned, there's no easy way to equip with WAAS today. That may or may not be an issue for your mission.

If I were considering buying this plane I'd have it flown to David Seastead's shop at KFTW. I'd have him perform the pre-buy and additional inspections above. If all was well, I'd purchase the plane. If squawks came up, I'd work that into the negotiation.

Pricing wise, this seems on par with what Glenn is turning around refurbished DA-42s for. However, I know he is completely refurbishing them, removing all interiors and replacing with new, and performing a full paint job with new striping. Painting and striping is at least $30k if not more (the last quote I got was back in 2021.)

[JCOiii]

Thanks, mhoran! Great things to think about. i'll keep reading and learning. I mean, ideally, that crypto lottery pays off and i just buy one of the overpriced brand new resells (for those who want new but don't want to wait ) But realistically, I've got a ways to go. Want to get my commercial rating, then multi, so i've got about 100 hours or so before i even set foot in a twin.

[michael.g.miller]

The KAP-140 is a bit of a double edged sword. It is not compatible with the G1000 NXi, but there's no way to install the NXi in this airplane. It is compatible with other navigators, though I'm not sure if any of them are certified for the DA-42.

Is this true? I realize Diamond doesn't offer an STC for it, but searching Garmin's documents, I found several references:

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-02128-04_03.pdf Page 48 of the ICA for the Cessna NXi STC has instructions for "KAP 140 Configuration Loading" on page 48.

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-02178-00_B.pdf Page 137 of the Cessna NXi Cockpit Reference guide has a "Pitch Trim" annunciation specifically for the KAP 140.

I'm hoping that Diamond eventually supports the NXi path for my -NG conversion with a KAP140 autopilot. It would be a lot more paletable to upgrade the avionics than the autopilot (GFC autopilot would be $60k!).

[chili4way]

Mike, the KAP140 is supported by Cessna/Garmin with the legacy-generation GIA63W (referenced in the documentation links above). It is not supported with the NXI-generation GIA64. Cessna supports the KAP140 only for its 2017-era legacy/NXI hybrid solution.

Whether or not one considers this generational hybrid to be "NXI" depends on whether you focus on GDU1050 SW features (and HW display performance) or long-term legacy HW support timelines of the GIA63W, GMA1347, etc. Or the KAP140, for that matter (which was introduced around 1996).

Diamond introduced a generational hybrid as "NXI-Phase1" for Austro-powered models only with the GFC700 in 2017-2018. Unlike Cessna, they never certified a KAP140 solution with Phase 1 as an upgrade path. The Lycoming DA40 was not in production; it didn't re-enter production until after the "full" NXI solution, so there is no "Phase 1" Lycoming solution. There is a near-zero chance that Diamond would certify a KAP140 "NXI" solution.

Cirrus did not introduce a generational hybrid and waited for "full NXI."