Diamond Quality

[f3yazoo]

Hi Everyone, just placed an order on a DA62 a few weeks back to start the long wait.
I wanted to ask a question I couldn't find answered already on thee Forum.

How good is the quality of Diamond aircraft?

The reason I ask is because of feedback from an A&P about Cirrus, plus my own experience withs two Cessna T206.

On the Cirrus I was flying them and had a plane on order.
After getting about 70hrs in G6 models I realized I really wasn't that crazy about the side stick spring system or the seat comfort.
The final touch for that was while going through a Wings Event "What goes into a 100hr service", the A&P shared the Cessna's rarely needed anything done to them but the Cirrus planes frequently needed work.
Basically, he was saying it was maintenance-heavy.

Fast forward and I ended up canceling the Cirrus order and bought a 08 Cessna T206.
Seats were A+ and it was roomy.
But immediately, I was having MFD issues, EHT sensor problems, and other wear and tear issues.
An opportunity came up to trade the 08 for what I paid and get a 22 Cessna T206 with 80 hours, that I currently have.
Since I have owned it the plane is often in the shop.

The first time was due to a squeaky cable which was fixed.
The second time I had flown to a business meeting with several of my Team and when we got ready to return the MFD, Com 2, Transponder, and AP were inop.
Field A&P couldn't figure out the issue so had to return home via another route and leave my plane.
Cessna picked it up and took it to a field with the ability to service the plane.
I found out the brand-new battery had broken, and the batt box was full of battery acid.
A&P said all the major power connections were slightly loose as well.

Not long after, I was flying and, on approach, realized my flaps were inop.
Once I was back home and the shop got to review, they found the factory had left a retainer bolt off the flap transmission system, and the entire transmission system and motor for the flaps were all destroyed.

I have been waiting a DA62, but it was after this last issue I decided to go ahead and pull the trigger.
There are more reasons of course to want to change but I am just curious what everyone else's experience has been.

So all that shared, is it common to have these same kinds of problems with Diamond?

Thanks,
Hayes

[Steve]

Hayes:

It sounds like you have already had more than your share of bad luck (maintenance-wise). You are new to the Forum, so use the search feature, and you will find threads dealing with maintenance issues. I can give you my personal experience - but that is just one owner. My airplane was built in Austria in 2001. I've owned it since then.

Overall, I have been impressed with Diamond's build quality. I had only one maintenance issue on the airplane during the 2 year warranty period (exhaust riser crack). Diamond sent a new exhaust system, and a subsequent SB addressed this common problem. I've replaced a couple of starters over 22 years. Had to pull my engine (Lycoming) to complete an AD several years ago. Otherwise, really no issues other than normal scheduled maintenance. Of course, things can change over the years, and as I said, my airplane was built almost a quarter century ago.

The diesel engines seem to be having some initial issues - see the forum for more details. The expertise to work on these is not as available as for the old standard Lycoming or Continental avgas engines. Hopefully, this will improve over time.

I've never been AOG away from home base, repairs have never been a problem as my A&P/IA is very good, and willing to work with me. For a more complex airframe/engine like a DA62, I would want to have a good Service Center nearby. Not sure whether there is one close to you at Jack Edwards.

Speaking of Jack Edwards, I've been there many times, since we have a vacation home on Perdido Key.

[TimS]

Hayes,

Wow, you have had some bad luck.

I am a member of COPA, I have owned an SR20, SR22, and an Aerostar. Neither Cirrus would I consider maintenance heavy, in fact the Cessna 182 a friend bought had much longer and more painful maintenance than the Cirrus on a regular basis. The engine aspects were about equal, but the Cessna has many more parts which require inspection compared to a Cirrus.

On the flip side, if you are having heat issues in the engine of a Cirrus, go to a shop which does a lot of Cirrus. It is not as common as a Cessna, and as a result you will find a lot of shops do not know how to fix things correctly or will downplay something which becomes a larger issue later. For example, the engine baffles on a Cirrus are critical, while not as a large of a concern in a Cessna.

With all that said, especially since you are getting a Diesel Diamond, having a local (or close enough for regular maintenance) shop well versed in Diamonds with a focus on the Diesel engine will be critical to your enjoyment of the plane.

Tim

[photoSteveZ]

I have owned two DA62s, both of which have had pesky problems that local shops can’t deal with. A prop governor failed on the new one (infant mortality); both have had leaky fuel quick drains (I don’t consider that a knock on Diamond, since they are very common parts). The new one had a crossfeed line that had to be replaced; since then the fuel selector valve on one engine has a slow fuel leak. The new one also had a couple of factory build issues that cropped up early in its service life, the worst of which was an aux fuel level sensor that wasn’t fully threaded into the tank, causing a fuel leak. The new one also developed a leaky master brake cylinder on the copilot’s side, and it took about three weeks to get the repair parts from Diamond Canada.

Luckily, there is an approved Diamond Service center 15 minutes from my home airport. They’ve been helpful attending to the little things, but their scheduled maintenance schedule tends to have a big backlog. For annuals I tend to bring my plane to Premier in Ft Worth, a three hour flight, because they service only Diamonds and are easier to schedule.

All in all, I’m very happy with the 62, despite service niggles: it’s just a delight to fly, with great capabilities.

[f3yazoo]

Hayes:

It sounds like you have already had more than your share of bad luck (maintenance-wise). You are new to the Forum, so use the search feature, and you will find threads dealing with maintenance issues. I can give you my personal experience - but that is just one owner. My airplane was built in Austria in 2001. I've owned it since then.

Overall, I have been impressed with Diamond's build quality. I had only one maintenance issue on the airplane during the 2 year warranty period (exhaust riser crack). Diamond sent a new exhaust system, and a subsequent SB addressed this common problem. I've replaced a couple of starters over 22 years. Had to pull my engine (Lycoming) to complete an AD several years ago. Otherwise, really no issues other than normal scheduled maintenance. Of course, things can change over the years, and as I said, my airplane was built almost a quarter century ago.

The diesel engines seem to be having some initial issues - see the forum for more details. The expertise to work on these is not as available as for the old standard Lycoming or Continental avgas engines. Hopefully, this will improve over time.

I've never been AOG away from home base, repairs have never been a problem as my A&P/IA is very good, and willing to work with me. For a more complex airframe/engine like a DA62, I would want to have a good Service Center nearby. Not sure whether there is one close to you at Jack Edwards.

Speaking of Jack Edwards, I've been there many times, since we have a vacation home on Perdido Key.

Hi Steve, thank you for the insights and our place in in Orange Beach. We are just off Marina Rd in those blue Duplex buildings there. We love fishing in Orange Beach and have been going down there since I was in college. Thanks for the insights buddy.

[f3yazoo]

Hayes,

Wow, you have had some bad luck.

I am a member of COPA, I have owned an SR20, SR22, and an Aerostar. Neither Cirrus would I consider maintenance heavy, in fact the Cessna 182 a friend bought had much longer and more painful maintenance than the Cirrus on a regular basis. The engine aspects were about equal, but the Cessna has many more parts which require inspection compared to a Cirrus.

On the flip side, if you are having heat issues in the engine of a Cirrus, go to a shop which does a lot of Cirrus. It is not as common as a Cessna, and as a result you will find a lot of shops do not know how to fix things correctly or will downplay something which becomes a larger issue later. For example, the engine baffles on a Cirrus are critical, while not as a large of a concern in a Cessna.

With all that said, especially since you are getting a Diesel Diamond, having a local (or close enough for regular maintenance) shop well versed in Diamonds with a focus on the Diesel engine will be critical to your enjoyment of the plane.

Tim

Hi Tim, man that is great to hear and learn the Cirrus planes are not worse. Even I am going the Diamond route I still have alot of friends that ask about Cirrus and we recently had a Cirrus flight school open up here. I think I have KJKA listed as my home base but we are in Northwest Arkansas and keep the plane at KVBT when not down in Orange Beach. Good info for sure and thank you for sharing.

[f3yazoo]

I have owned two DA62s, both of which have had pesky problems that local shops can’t deal with. A prop governor failed on the new one (infant mortality); both have had leaky fuel quick drains (I don’t consider that a knock on Diamond, since they are very common parts). The new one had a crossfeed line that had to be replaced; since then the fuel selector valve on one engine has a slow fuel leak. The new one also had a couple of factory build issues that cropped up early in its service life, the worst of which was an aux fuel level sensor that wasn’t fully threaded into the tank, causing a fuel leak. The new one also developed a leaky master brake cylinder on the copilot’s side, and it took about three weeks to get the repair parts from Diamond Canada.

Luckily, there is an approved Diamond Service center 15 minutes from my home airport. They’ve been helpful attending to the little things, but their scheduled maintenance schedule tends to have a big backlog. For annuals, I tend to bring my plane to Premier in Ft Worth, a three-hour flight, because they service only Diamonds and are easier to schedule.

All in all, I’m very happy with the 62, despite service niggles: it’s just a delight to fly, with great capabilities.

Hi Steve, man that sounds like alot of stuff lol! It is comforting to hear, even after all that, you are still happy with Diamond and, in fact, have bought two of them. How did you avoid getting a fire on the fuel leak? I guess just jet a leaking + heat, but without compression, isn't enough to ignite it? Thanks for sharing.

[Boatguy]

My new six months ago 62 had an assortment of niggling little problems which speak to poor quality control at the factory. My LEMO plugs had no power, one LEMO was installed upside down, nose gear micro-switch triggered a gear warning in the hangar, and sometimes while taxiing, etc. etc. That said, none of the problems stopped me from flying or grounded the plane.

I had to go back to the factory and have the left wing re-painted because they had tried to "blow in" some patches and it looked horrible. Then my local (2hr drive) shop addressed everything else. I now have 107 service hours (aka flight hours) and most of the little stuff has been fixed.

I still have a leaking fuel vent on the RH wing. Whenever the wing tanks are filled (to the tab, not the top), it leaks on the apron and in my hangar. Apparently they have to pull the wing and remove the tank to replace it so that will happen at the first annual. Annoying and messy, but not AOG.

My 40NG went about 400hrs before the first major problem which grounded the plane for 10 weeks while they made guesses about the problem, shipped parts, installed parts, and then the problem wasn't fixed. It was out of warranty but to their credit they covered about 60% of the cost. I covered the 10 weeks AOG (hangar, interest, insurance, test flights, etc.). It got so bad the FAA finally contacted me, but that's another story.

I wrote in a separate thread something to the effect that the best thing you can do is to allocate two weeks for acceptance testing of your plane at the factory. Your distributor may not want you to go to the factory, don't listen to them. Go to the factory and go over every detail of your plane. Fly it at least 5-10hrs. Thoroughly test every single system; heaters, RACC, O2, TKS, etc., irrespective of season. Take nothing for granted, not even the most trivial function. Plan to be in London at least two weeks. Do not be anxious to accept your plane and get home. Stay there until every squawk is addressed. If they have to pull a wing, let them pull the wing. Once you take the plane, it's your money being spent while the plane sits in service shop waiting for parts to come from Austria to Canada to your local shop.

That said, it's a wonderful plane to fly!

[photoSteveZ]

I have owned two DA62s, both of which have had pesky problems that local shops can’t deal with. A prop governor failed on the new one (infant mortality); both have had leaky fuel quick drains (I don’t consider that a knock on Diamond, since they are very common parts). The new one had a crossfeed line that had to be replaced; since then the fuel selector valve on one engine has a slow fuel leak. The new one also had a couple of factory build issues that cropped up early in its service life, the worst of which was an aux fuel level sensor that wasn’t fully threaded into the tank, causing a fuel leak. The new one also developed a leaky master brake cylinder on the copilot’s side, and it took about three weeks to get the repair parts from Diamond Canada.

Luckily, there is an approved Diamond Service center 15 minutes from my home airport. They’ve been helpful attending to the little things, but their scheduled maintenance schedule tends to have a big backlog. For annuals, I tend to bring my plane to Premier in Ft Worth, a three-hour flight, because they service only Diamonds and are easier to schedule.

All in all, I’m very happy with the 62, despite service niggles: it’s just a delight to fly, with great capabilities.

Hi Steve, man that sounds like alot of stuff lol! It is comforting to hear, even after all that, you are still happy with Diamond and, in fact, have bought two of them. How did you avoid getting a fire on the fuel leak? I guess just jet a leaking + heat, but without compression, isn't enough to ignite it? Thanks for sharing.

The fuel leak (we’re talking ounces per month, so it’s a really slow leak) is at the fuel selector valve, which is aft of the firewall. It flows to the cowl joint just aft of the selector valve and drips from there. No pooling, and given prop blast I don’t perceive there’s a fire hazard.

[Kesk]

I've worked on 20s, 40s and 42s as a mechanic. Old and new, also messed around with new 172s and Pipers. Diamond is one of the best manufacturers out there. Their logistical support isn't great is all, but that doesn't matter much if you're near a service center that's capable.

62s and 42s are different beasts than the 20s and 40s in terms of complexity but diamond overall puts out great planes