22-FEB-2023 DA42 crash in Slovakia (Europe)

[ememic99]

People are dying in training that is supposed to be training them how to avoid dying. Something is wrong here, and it's not necessarily the CFIs, DPEs, their clients, or the airplane.

Screenshot 2023-02-23 at 8.20.20 PM.png

I'm sure those of you with DA42's or 62's will disagree - but as an outsider looking in - it's the limitations of the Austro engine for inflight restarts that's contributing to the problem. I assume the other diesels are the same and the procedures as described by Dave P. do not seem easy to accomplish for a new (and probably low total time) student.

Maybe Austro is a bit more demanding in OEI scenario and engine restart but DA42 involved accident in case was TDI.

[CFIDave]

I enjoy showing off "parachute mode" where I throttle to idle, let the plane slow while holding altitude, and hold the stick all the way back into a full stall. While buffeting in the stall, the plane will simply descend in a stable wings-level attitude, with no tendency to drop a wing. (A slower descent than the 1700 fpm descent of a Cirrus under parachute.)

Thumbs up for the rest of your typically wise and informative post but this common "falling leaf is better than a parachute" trope, often repeated by Cirrus competitors, ignores the forward motion and total energy going into the ensuing crash.

I never said that "parachute mode" in a Diamond is *better* than a Cirrus under parachute; I simply noted that it results in a lower vertical descent rate. I like to demonstrate that a stalled Diamond (NOT a twin stalling with asymmetrical thrust) doesn't want to drop a wing as with many other aircraft. In contrast, I've stalled an A36 Bonanza that wants to drop a wing every time; recovery reinforced the technique of picking up a dropped wing with rudder.

[Kevincejnar]

This is interesting, during the flight demonstration of my DA62, we shut off the engine and restarted very much as if it was a routine procedure, I appreicate that there were good conditions, an empty plane, but it didnt seem to be that we were being so careful to pitch the plane up, and also to have the speed in such a specific bracket,I remember there being a max speed however, I will discuss the procedure with my pilots.

Also of course condolonces to the family and friends of the deceased - please all safety first.

[SvkDiamondDriver]

Hello everyone ...
As for the crash... our CAA still hasn't released the final report.
During that day I flew around the airport and did some circuits and exercises as training, but I landed before the crash. I saw the guys alive before leaving the airport. It is very sad what happened. I have a friend and he knew them all. The weather wasn't bad at all so I don't think it was weather related. Rumor has it that someone from a local village saw their left engine turned off

[ememic99]

As for the crash... our CAA still hasn't released the final report.

I wouldn't expect it so fast.

Rumor has it that someone from a local village saw their left engine turned off

It's consistent with what I heard immediately after the accident.

[nworthin]

I was watching a video on You Tube and the chief pilot for Diamond (forget his name) was demonstrating restarting a engine. He did something really smart. First he put out take off flaps; this lowered VMC speed. Then, he reduced the power on the "good" engine to 70%; this reduced yaw and roll over tendency. Only then did he show to 80 kts to restart the feathered engine.

Not saying the OEI practice should be done with an actually stopped engine but it bothered me that I had'nt thought of doing it this way on my own. I only shut of an engine once in order to determine what the proper simulated feathered power setting should be (I got 12%) and that's what I use to practice flying with a "dead" engine.

BTW, does anyone know a way to silence the panel and Garmin voice if you reduce power below 20% with gear up to practice this way? It's really annoying to listen to and might result in some negative transfer (i.e., getting comfortable with the gear up warning).

[Boatguy]

I was watching a video on You Tube and the chief pilot for Diamond (forget his name) was demonstrating restarting a engine. He did something really smart. First he put out take off flaps; this lowered VMC speed. Then, he reduced the power on the "good" engine to 70%; this reduced yaw and roll over tendency. Only then did he show to 80 kts to restart the feathered engine.

Not saying the OEI practice should be done with an actually stopped engine but it bothered me that I had'nt thought of doing it this way on my own. I only shut of an engine once in order to determine what the proper simulated feathered power setting should be (I got 12%) and that's what I use to practice flying with a "dead" engine.

BTW, does anyone know a way to silence the panel and Garmin voice if you reduce power below 20% with gear up to practice this way? It's really annoying to listen to and might result in some negative transfer (i.e., getting comfortable with the gear up warning).

I had to do the engine restart in my training and in my checkride. We did not lower the TO flaps, nor drop the power. However, once restarted the engine was slowly brought up to power as the throttles were "scissored", bringing the good engine down and the bad engine up. There is some yaw when it is first started after moving out of the feathered position, but the scissoring smoothed it out pretty well.

The DA42, frequently used for ME training, has a "mute" button for the gear, but to my knowledge there is no way to mute it in the DA62.

What I find really annoying on the DA62 is that when descending from altitude (e.g., > 10,000'), I can't pull the power back very far without getting the "check gear" warning. The last time I did this, I think I was descending from 14,000' and couldn't pull back the power further than about 40% so my TAS was pretty much my cruise speed. But interestingly, as I descended slowly (VS 500fpm), without touching the throttle, the load/power dropped as I descended. I suspect this was the ECU's walking down the "combustion extinction" curve documented in the Austro ops manual.

Based on this, I've learned to request lower long before ATC would otherwise instruct me to descend. When cruising at 14,000-16,000', depending on terrain, I start asking for lower about 100nm away from my destination. I usually make my request in 4,000' increments, but frequently only get 2,000' increments, with the next 2,000' "request noted".

[ememic99]

The last time I did this, I think I was descending from 14,000' and couldn't pull back the power further than about 40% so my TAS was pretty much my cruise speed.

This is OT but why would you go below 40% on descent? I initiate descent just few minutes before actual TOD keeping power somewhere between 60% and 70% (with 1000 FPM or more) rarely going below except when experiencing turbulence. Also, the exception for early descent is strong headwind when I try to reach better conditions lower.

[Colin]

If I need to descend faster than 500fpm (usually I am descending from higher altitudes at 300fpm due to sensitive-ear passengers), I toss out the gear. They are a nice speed break. I am 74% power from cruise-climb to entering the pattern.

[ememic99]

If I need to descend faster than 500fpm (usually I am descending from higher altitudes at 300fpm due to sensitive-ear passengers), I toss out the gear. They are a nice speed break. I am 74% power from cruise-climb to entering the pattern.

I descent fast because I want to fly fast - no speed breaks are needed.