Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
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- pete423
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Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
Now that I have decided to switch out my NG order for a XLT with the help of the forum. I need to figure out how to spec it out again. I want to maximize useful load and speed vs range. I cannot see myself and the family take on a leg longer than 3 hours so swapping out extended range tank for better CG. The only toss up is the AC. From what I understand the Seamech will add a scoop and reduce the cruise by 5 knots. But I live in SoCal so it can get pretty nasty in the summer. Any thoughts and advise will be greatly appreciated.
Lastly for the few that is in the know, is Diamond shipping with NXi Phase III yet?
Options that I am sure on
GFC700
GTX345R ADS-B IN/OUT
SYNTHETIC VISION
PREMIUM LEATHER
Options that I am not sure about
GDL 69A SXM - I don't see the need with ADS-B in/Out above. But I see most people order their new plane with it.
SEAMECH AC - 70lb penalty and from what I can read on the forum a few knots penalty as well.
ELECTRICAL PEDALS - I don't see the reason for it especially at $7800. However, it seems most people order it.
EXTENDED FUEL TANK - I read on the forum the 40-gallon standard tank has better CG especially when combined with the Hartzell Composite Prop.
Hartzell Composite Prop - Same reason as above.
Lastly for the few that is in the know, is Diamond shipping with NXi Phase III yet?
Options that I am sure on
GFC700
GTX345R ADS-B IN/OUT
SYNTHETIC VISION
PREMIUM LEATHER
Options that I am not sure about
GDL 69A SXM - I don't see the need with ADS-B in/Out above. But I see most people order their new plane with it.
SEAMECH AC - 70lb penalty and from what I can read on the forum a few knots penalty as well.
ELECTRICAL PEDALS - I don't see the reason for it especially at $7800. However, it seems most people order it.
EXTENDED FUEL TANK - I read on the forum the 40-gallon standard tank has better CG especially when combined with the Hartzell Composite Prop.
Hartzell Composite Prop - Same reason as above.
- mhoran
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Re: Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
We have the GDL 69A but don't use it. I once wished I had it when I flew to the Bahamas, which lacks ADS-B coverage. For music I just use my phone and Bluetooth.
We don't have AC. No real need for it in the NY metro. In the summer some days can be hot on the ground, but once in the air it's fine. We do have to deal with some significant (30+ min) ground delays getting out IFR from NY TRACON, but it's not worth the weight and speed penalty IMO. But your situation might be different.
Electric pedals are a waste. They'll eventually break and need expensive repairs. I wish we had the manual pedals.
I think the extended tank is worth it. We have a 2007 which does not have the CG issue. So if you can find a way to make the CG work (with ballast or otherwise) I say go for it. While I don't regularly fly all the way down to minimum fuel it's nice to have that extra reserve and means you don't have to make as many fuel stops. I don't think it's worth leaving off the list.
We don't have AC. No real need for it in the NY metro. In the summer some days can be hot on the ground, but once in the air it's fine. We do have to deal with some significant (30+ min) ground delays getting out IFR from NY TRACON, but it's not worth the weight and speed penalty IMO. But your situation might be different.
Electric pedals are a waste. They'll eventually break and need expensive repairs. I wish we had the manual pedals.
I think the extended tank is worth it. We have a 2007 which does not have the CG issue. So if you can find a way to make the CG work (with ballast or otherwise) I say go for it. While I don't regularly fly all the way down to minimum fuel it's nice to have that extra reserve and means you don't have to make as many fuel stops. I don't think it's worth leaving off the list.
- waynemcc999
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Re: Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
Peter, my take on your not-sure-about options:
GDL 69A SXM - I also agree that ADS-B In handles this need quite well. I would however (for resale value) purchase/install the receiver but not pay/activate the SXM subscription.
SEAMECH AC - I live in Santa Barbara and very rarely wish I had AC. In Florida I'd get AC, but not in coastal SoCal. The airvents supply great ventilation (including on the ground once the engine is running)... and above say 5K' air temp is a non-issue (especially at our low humidity levels).
ELECTRICAL PEDALS - Certainly pricey, but possibly worth it again for resale.
EXTENDED FUEL TANK - I flew a 40 gal DA40 for a year, then have flown my 50 gal XLS the past 7 years... absolutely I'd suggest the 50 gal extended range.
Hartzell Composite Prop - I have the MT composite prop and have been happy with it.
GDL 69A SXM - I also agree that ADS-B In handles this need quite well. I would however (for resale value) purchase/install the receiver but not pay/activate the SXM subscription.
SEAMECH AC - I live in Santa Barbara and very rarely wish I had AC. In Florida I'd get AC, but not in coastal SoCal. The airvents supply great ventilation (including on the ground once the engine is running)... and above say 5K' air temp is a non-issue (especially at our low humidity levels).
ELECTRICAL PEDALS - Certainly pricey, but possibly worth it again for resale.
EXTENDED FUEL TANK - I flew a 40 gal DA40 for a year, then have flown my 50 gal XLS the past 7 years... absolutely I'd suggest the 50 gal extended range.
Hartzell Composite Prop - I have the MT composite prop and have been happy with it.
Wayne McClelland
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
- Soareyes
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Re: Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
40 gallon tanks: If I was spec'ing a DA40 XLT, and I'm thinking about it, I would get the 40 gallon tanks for the reasons you said. Some say the aft CG restriction with 50 gallon tanks came only because spin recovery took an half turn longer than allowed. That sounds like more of a technical detail than a practical safety matter. But the rear CG limit is to be respected and potentially dangerous to go beyond. 40 gallon tanks give you more loading flexibility.
GDL 69A: I don't have the music option activated on mine but I like the XM weather better than the ADS-B and I like having both available to compare and as a back-up.
Electric pedals: Like the seats in your car, manual adjustment is fine, electrically operated is nicer. A luxury, like leather seats. I've had both. The cable worked fine but took a little more explaining how to operate. Some flight school planes with frequent pedal adjustment report the occasional cable break.
Hartzell Composite Prop: I liked mine and would get it again. Lighter, more durable, less vibration, looks good but expensive. W&B works well with the 40 gallon tanks. If you get 50 gallon tanks the CG restrictions mean you have to carry ballast in the nose, negating the lighter weight benefit.
GDL 69A: I don't have the music option activated on mine but I like the XM weather better than the ADS-B and I like having both available to compare and as a back-up.
Electric pedals: Like the seats in your car, manual adjustment is fine, electrically operated is nicer. A luxury, like leather seats. I've had both. The cable worked fine but took a little more explaining how to operate. Some flight school planes with frequent pedal adjustment report the occasional cable break.
Hartzell Composite Prop: I liked mine and would get it again. Lighter, more durable, less vibration, looks good but expensive. W&B works well with the 40 gallon tanks. If you get 50 gallon tanks the CG restrictions mean you have to carry ballast in the nose, negating the lighter weight benefit.
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- Steve
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Re: Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
Peter -
None of those options were available when I ordered my DA40 (in 2000), so take my suggestions with a grain of salt:
GDL 69A - with ADS-B, don't need it, and it will save a few pounds EW
AC - I live in TX and fly in the SW US. There were a few times I would have liked it, but not at the speed/weight penalty. My AC is just getting to altitude ASAP. Luckily, I have a hangar, so I preflight and load in there. pull the airplane ou, and go. Small airfield so I never have to wait to take off.
Electrical pedals - I am the only one flying, so the pedals seldom get adjusted. I modified the gust lock (see several posts) so that I don't have to pull the pedals back to install it. More weight, expense for minimal utility (in my case). If you were renting it, or had several different sized pilots, it would be a good idea.
Extended tanks - my bladder capacity matches my fuel capacity - about 3 hours with reserve (40 gal). I have had a few flights where I stretched both to take advantage of tailwinds to eliminate a fuel stop, but an extra hour of flight time usually means I'm suffering...
MT prop - I have been happy with the MT prop. I recently upgraded it to the newer scimitar blades at the last OH. as with any prop, I'm careful taxiing where there is loose debris (not many places I visit).
I also have owned my airplane for 21 years, so resale considerations really didn't enter into my calculus.
Steve
None of those options were available when I ordered my DA40 (in 2000), so take my suggestions with a grain of salt:
GDL 69A - with ADS-B, don't need it, and it will save a few pounds EW
AC - I live in TX and fly in the SW US. There were a few times I would have liked it, but not at the speed/weight penalty. My AC is just getting to altitude ASAP. Luckily, I have a hangar, so I preflight and load in there. pull the airplane ou, and go. Small airfield so I never have to wait to take off.
Electrical pedals - I am the only one flying, so the pedals seldom get adjusted. I modified the gust lock (see several posts) so that I don't have to pull the pedals back to install it. More weight, expense for minimal utility (in my case). If you were renting it, or had several different sized pilots, it would be a good idea.
Extended tanks - my bladder capacity matches my fuel capacity - about 3 hours with reserve (40 gal). I have had a few flights where I stretched both to take advantage of tailwinds to eliminate a fuel stop, but an extra hour of flight time usually means I'm suffering...
MT prop - I have been happy with the MT prop. I recently upgraded it to the newer scimitar blades at the last OH. as with any prop, I'm careful taxiing where there is loose debris (not many places I visit).
I also have owned my airplane for 21 years, so resale considerations really didn't enter into my calculus.
Steve
- CFIDave
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Re: Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
If I were buying a new DA40 XLT:
1. Get the 50 gal extended range fuel tanks. It's not that hard to abide by the aft CG limit; with 2 big people we used to put our luggage in the rear seats if necessary. You'll appreciate the ability to make fewer X-country fuel stops, the extra fuel provides peace of mind in IMC, and this will increase resale value.
2. No need for GDL69A anymore with ADS-B IN free weather. And you can play music files from your phone or iPad via Bluetooth from the NXi Phase II GMA 1360 audio panel.
3. I've seen the adjustment cables break quite a bit on flight school planes with manual pedals (pilots pull up instead of aft when adjusting), so if you're going to re-adjust pedals frequently get the electric pedals. Otherwise manual is just fine.
4. Composite prop is more durable than 3-blade MT prop, but at considerably higher cost. (I personally prefer the looks of a 3-blade prop.)
5. I don't think you want/need AC in southern CA, since you don't suffer the oppressive humidity of FL or TX. AC really affects the useful load and utility of your plane, not to mention making it 5 knots slower.
1. Get the 50 gal extended range fuel tanks. It's not that hard to abide by the aft CG limit; with 2 big people we used to put our luggage in the rear seats if necessary. You'll appreciate the ability to make fewer X-country fuel stops, the extra fuel provides peace of mind in IMC, and this will increase resale value.
2. No need for GDL69A anymore with ADS-B IN free weather. And you can play music files from your phone or iPad via Bluetooth from the NXi Phase II GMA 1360 audio panel.
3. I've seen the adjustment cables break quite a bit on flight school planes with manual pedals (pilots pull up instead of aft when adjusting), so if you're going to re-adjust pedals frequently get the electric pedals. Otherwise manual is just fine.
4. Composite prop is more durable than 3-blade MT prop, but at considerably higher cost. (I personally prefer the looks of a 3-blade prop.)
5. I don't think you want/need AC in southern CA, since you don't suffer the oppressive humidity of FL or TX. AC really affects the useful load and utility of your plane, not to mention making it 5 knots slower.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- Chris B
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Re: Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
I understand why people are switching to ADS-B, but we maintain the SXM subscription. IME it updates faster and has better resolution.
The weight, drag & extra maintenance make this a no-go for us in NorCal. But if we lived in a hot/humid environment the story might be different.SEAMECH AC - 70lb penalty and from what I can read on the forum a few knots penalty as well.
IMO, this depends on how often you switch pilots. We have electric pedals, but *never* adjust them. I modified the gust lock to fit our standard setup.ELECTRICAL PEDALS - I don't see the reason for it especially at $7800. However, it seems most people order it.
We have the extended tanks and love the added flexibility. With the aluminum prop, CG has not been an issue.EXTENDED FUEL TANK - I read on the forum the 40-gallon standard tank has better CG especially when combined with the Hartzell Composite Prop.
Though I prefer the aesthetics of the composite prop, we would choose the aluminum prop again: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5086Hartzell Composite Prop - Same reason as above.
Chris
- Rich
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Re: Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
For the 50-gallon tanks you have to decide whether you can live with the more limited CG. In practical terms I've only had one trip where a fuel stop would have been eliminated: Everett, WA -> Ft Collins CO. Flying at max power required two stops. With 50 gallon tanks it would have been one. Some years later I made that same trip but ran LOP on the first leg and made one stop: Burley, ID. 4 hobbs hours, 535 nm flown required 30 gallons. I required just that one stop. With 50 gallon tanks no matter what I did I'd still have had to make one stop anyway.
Positive aspects of the 50 gal would be resale, sometimes useful flexibility in where/when you choose to fuel up, or when you have to deal with significant headwinds.
I really haven't missed the extra 10 gallons at all. Now most of my flying, especially actually traveling somewhere distant, involves just myself and my wife, so the limited CG wouldn't matter. However, coupled with the extended baggage (is this now standard in the XLT?) and 2646 MTOW, I am able to take on the occasional full-up load and stay well within limits:
NOTE: Even with 40 gallon tanks, I suspect that you'd experience weight problems with the above load given the higher empty weights now common in the current DA40-180.
Positive aspects of the 50 gal would be resale, sometimes useful flexibility in where/when you choose to fuel up, or when you have to deal with significant headwinds.
I really haven't missed the extra 10 gallons at all. Now most of my flying, especially actually traveling somewhere distant, involves just myself and my wife, so the limited CG wouldn't matter. However, coupled with the extended baggage (is this now standard in the XLT?) and 2646 MTOW, I am able to take on the occasional full-up load and stay well within limits:
NOTE: Even with 40 gallon tanks, I suspect that you'd experience weight problems with the above load given the higher empty weights now common in the current DA40-180.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- Soareyes
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Re: Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
Haha, lot's of confirmation bias on display here. We all like what we have. Which is great, means you can't go wrong. Whatever you choose you will like it!
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- Rich
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Re: Advise on New DA40 XLT Configuration
This is true. Plus mine is one of the no-longer-manufactured significantly lighter (and more forward CG) versions augmented by subsequently available mods.
When we contracted for the plane, we chose the 50-gallon option. But that option hadn't been certified yet, so it was contracted that we could get it installed later for the original option price ($3,800 IIRC). By the time it became available and was offered to us, we decided to pass since the 40 original capacity had proven completely satisfactory and we'd have had to take the plane back to the factory for the installation. We didn't know at the time the significant effect on CG the option imposed.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5