2005 DA40 XL - Can I upgrade to WAAS?

[JanSq]

Oh, Diamond sages around the world, I beseech thee for help.

I have a 2005 DA40XL with G1000, no synthetic vision and no WAAS

I asked Garmin at Oshkosh about upgrading to WAAS (to be able to use LPV minimums on RNAV approaches).
They said that the unit needed (GIA63W) was no longer manufactured and to try to find a used one.

Has anyone had any luck with this? I have called avionics shops that I have dealt with successfully in the past and they just hem and haw. Sounds like I'm asking for unicorns.

Or is it possible to have the existing GIA63 upgraded to GIA63W?

Jan

[Chris]

The GIA63W units are exceedingly difficult to find now. As far as I can tell, the only time they become available is if somebody upgrades their legacy G1000 (or G1000 NXi Phase 1) to a G1000 NXi Phase 2 or later, or if somebody scraps a WAAS-enabled aircraft and the units are still serviceable.

[mhoran]

Diamond had an upgrade program (see https://diamondaviators.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7504) but I didn't have any luck with that program. I found a used pair and had them installed, resulting in my own saga (https://diamondaviators.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8247). While I'm happy to have had the upgrade performed, in hindsight it might have been easier to trade my non-WAAS plane for a WAAS one.

They do pop up on eBay every now and then. They're also sporadically available at https://www.seaerospace.com/sales/produ ... in/GIA-63W but at an absurd price.

[chili4way]

Recommend you attempt to get on the Legacy WAAS upgrade list for the Diamond program by contacting Diamond Support in Canada.

Phone: +1 519 457 4041
Email: support-canada@diamondaircraft.com

In addition to the two GIA63Ws, you'll likely want to upgrade the MFD to include the additional buttons for WAAS-enabled VNAV. Get an updated price quotation and find your number on the waiting list. You may need to make a modest deposit to secure your place in line.

When Phase 3 SW becomes available, it is likely to motivate additional owners to perform the Phase 1 to Phase 2 HW update as the Phase 3 SW is backward compatible with Phase 2 hardware. You should also ask about the availability of the Legacy V15 SW for your configuration and what service locations can perform the HW upgrade and SW update for you.

[mhoran]

To temper your expectations, I got on the waitlist in April 2021. At the time Diamond was no longer taking deposits and had no idea when additional units would be available. While the program was initially designed to source GIA-63Ws from authorized service centers, in my experience those service centers have prioritized their own customers over sending units back to Diamond. This makes the waitlist with Diamond kind of useless, but it's worth giving it a shot.

I don't believe the GFC 700 was available in 2005, so the VNV button is moot. Also not sure of availability of a compatible GDU-1044 for the DA40, the current STC is not compatible with the GDU-1044B which seems to be the only model available new. This may change with GDU v15, which was due out last year, but has still not been made available to DA40 owners. Personally, I don't have the VNV button, and it's fine.

It's worth trying to get the upgrade, but it's going to be a real challenge. At some point there will be an upgrade path of some sort, either to NXi or to an alternate panel. That time may be a ways off, and Diamond hasn't shared any plans of NXi upgrades for legacy G1000 DA40s.

[chili4way]

Good catch, Matt. I read XL and assumed GFC700, which wasn't available in 2005. Yes, some DASCs are not playing by the prescribed rules and prioritizing their customers regionally. (I suppose this saves 2X shipping costs). This is why asking "which DASC" should be part of the conversation with Diamond along with the status of GDU v15. It would be good to have a refreshed update from a committed owner.

I expect there will eventually be a total "avionics overhaul" that replaces the entire legacy G1000 system with the current production NXI system. It won't be cheap, probably $100K-150K. A lot of money, but much less than the price of a new plane of the same model. And it's also worth noting that Cirrus hasn't shared any plans for NXI (Perspective+) upgrades for their legacy G1000 (Perspective) SR20s or SR22s.

[Boatguy]

And it's also worth noting that Cirrus hasn't shared any plans for NXI (Perspective+) upgrades for their legacy G1000 (Perspective) SR20s or SR22s.

While that is technically true, it's not quite apples to apple's.

Early Cirrus' had Avidyne Entegra panels. Avidyne navigators added WAAS for the Cirrus 2007 model. I don't know if Avidyne offered an upgrade to WAAS or not, but Garmin offered a WAAS upgrade for their navigators so I would be surprised if Avidyne did not. In any case, Avidyne does offer a panel upgrade to the Avidyne Vantage 12" PFD/MFD and buys full page ads in COPA Pilot to promote it. Avidyne's modular approach is a little different than Garmin, with separate nav and comm modules on the panel in addition to the PFD/MFD. So the new Vantage screens can be used with either the older or newer navigator and comm units. That's quite a bit different than NXi which requires at least a 63W, which Garmin has discontinued.

According to Steel Aviation's Cirrus History, Perspective was not introduced until 2008 and came with WAAS, GFC700 and a yaw damper. So no Cirrus Perspective owner has ever had the WAAS and autopilot upgrade issue that is being confronted by Diamond owners.

As you point out, Garmin has not yet offered a Perspective+ (aka NXi) upgrade to Cirrus Perspective owners. However, Garmin does offer an NXi upgrade for a variety of Cessna aircraft, so I suspect they will eventually get around to Cirrus.

[Rich]

Early Cirrus' had Avidyne Entegra panels. Avidyne navigators added WAAS for the Cirrus 2007 model. I don't know if Avidyne offered an upgrade to WAAS or not, but Garmin offered a WAAS upgrade for their navigators so I would be surprised if Avidyne did not.

Those Cirri actually used GNS430 navigators because the Avidynes were basically just display/HSI units. Upgrade for the GNS' to 430W first became available in 2006 ($1500/unit). Likely simply doing that upgrade would have mostly take care of it. Though I could see some sort of minor software change might have been needed, it isn't particularly likely. I didn't need to change out my dumb KI525 or autopilot in any way to accommodate WAAS in 2007.

[chili4way]

The Avidyne Cirrus aircraft were "modular" panels, like the steam gauge DA40s. Any element can be updated if an STC supports it, and there is no need to update and certify a system-level software component. Cirrus had the Avidyne Entegra displays, but it was not an integrated solution like the Cirrus Perspective "legacy" G1000 system. Cirrus did differently by waiting for the "complete system" (WAAS + GFC700) to be available before introducing their integrated avionics solution. Diamond and Cessna were early G1000 adopters, introducing non-WAAS systems from 2004-2007 before the DA40-XLS in 2008. An apples-to-apples comparison is a Perspective/XLS upgrade to Perspective+/"full" NXI offering (GIA64s+GMA1360+GFC700). I don't believe Cessna (or Garmin) offers this complete solution yet.

Here's why the "full NXI" overhaul is an appropriate solution to reference across manufacturers. As well-known, the legacy G1000 LRUs/hardware are no longer in production. Sooner or later (and hopefully later for current legacy owners), all legacy systems will need to have their avionics overhauled. The LRUs won't be repairable. When this will happen is a difficult question to answer.

Upgrading the GDU1040s to 1050s and calling it an "NXI system" evades this concern, even as it provides new features and better performance. And this Cessna solution is only available to existing WAAS/GDU63W airplanes. The Cessna 172s with the equivalent avionics to the 2004-2006 non-WAAS DA40-180s cannot be upgraded to "NXI" with the current incremental solution.

The unfortunate thing for non-WAAS legacy owners' aircraft was that the value of WAAS (i.e., availability of LPV approaches) didn't manifest until after the GIA63W was no longer in production. When it was available, it was hard to justify financially.

If WAAS is essential and immediately valuable to a legacy owner, the "half-price" cost of adding WAAS will be worth the effort. If not, starting to save for that eventual avionics overhaul is a good idea. It will still cost less than a new airplane.

[Rich]

I upgraded my GNS units to WAAS in 2007. The first day flying it afterward I was testing it with LPV approaches. Several were already available around Puget Sound. Although not as ubiquitous as now, the upgrade provided immediate benefit to me.

There’s been an interesting sequence over the years in WAAS function. As part of the conversion it was required that annunciation of the type of approach be readily in the pilot’s view. At the time, that meant that could have meant that the Whitewire display would have to be augmented to be able to display “LPV” or just “GPS”, as circumstance dictated. I didn’t have to do that because the GNS displays were positioned adequately.

Over the years there came to be additional wrinkles and the requisite expanded possible displays, which the GNS units handled via intermediate low-cost software updates. To wit: “LP”, “LP+V”, “LNAV+V”. This would have been impossible with the Whitewire (not enough space, for one thing). Likely any alternative external displays that a given panel uses would have needed companion modifications. But for me it all just magically happened as a matter of routine