Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

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jeremywpb
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Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by jeremywpb »

I am on the board of a non-profit. We purchased a 2004 Diamond DA40 about 5 years ago. It has been an incredible plane. We are located in South Florida and the plane has done hundreds of chartable flights, especially after the hurricanes in the islands. The airframe has 2150 hours, and the original engine with the same time on it. It is time for an overhaul. I know things are tight with parts. Any suggestions on where to get the work done and what the charity might be in for dollar wise? Airplane is located at KLNA. Thanks in advance for your help, this forum has always been the best.


(The charities website)
www.rebootcharity.org
Ral33
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Re: Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by Ral33 »

I direct DA40 Maintenance for a flight school. We end up changing a few engines a year. Recently I've used Penn Yann Aero up in New York just because they're one of the few shops that have some overhaul exchange M1A's, allowing us to reduce downtime. Signature engines in Cincinnati or Western Skyways in Colorado are also good options, though didn't have exchange options the last time I checked. Penn Yann has been running about $32,000 recently, you might be able to work out a deal with them being a charity.
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Derek
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Re: Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by Derek »

I have a 2002 da40 with 1900hrs on airframe and engine. So far the engine runs perfect. What is everyone’s experience with running these engines over 2000hrs on condition? Is it possible to run for 3000hrs for example, or not advisable? I don’t want to risk my life but nor do I want to waste money.
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mhoran
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Re: Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by mhoran »

Derek wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:28 pm I have a 2002 da40 with 1900hrs on airframe and engine. So far the engine runs perfect. What is everyone’s experience with running these engines over 2000hrs on condition? Is it possible to run for 3000hrs for example, or not advisable? I don’t want to risk my life but nor do I want to waste money.
I'm in the Mike Busch "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp and don't plan to overhaul my engine at TBO. I've had more wrench induced failures over the past few years than improvements. I keep an eye on my engine analysis and subscribe to SavvyQA who helps analyze any issues I have with my engine. I perform regular oil changes and oil analyses and keep an eye on the trends. Now I am facing some signs of an older engine -- we're at 1950 hours on our 2007 -- but that doesn't mean I'm going to replace the engine or pull a jug. I've asked my mechanic to take a deeper look at our upcoming annual and determine what the best course of action will be. Nobody has yet suggested overhauling the engine (or even pulling a jug) despite a high time engine.

When it is time for an overhaul I also plan to use Penn Yan -- I've heard good things from multiple mechanics. The same mechanics who have advised me not to arbitrarily overhaul an engine.
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Re: Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by waynemcc999 »

mhoran wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:00 pm
Derek wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:28 pm I have a 2002 da40 with 1900hrs on airframe and engine. So far the engine runs perfect. What is everyone’s experience with running these engines over 2000hrs on condition? Is it possible to run for 3000hrs for example, or not advisable? I don’t want to risk my life but nor do I want to waste money.
I'm in the Mike Busch "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp and don't plan to overhaul my engine at TBO. I've had more wrench induced failures over the past few years than improvements. I keep an eye on my engine analysis and subscribe to SavvyQA who helps analyze any issues I have with my engine. I perform regular oil changes and oil analyses and keep an eye on the trends. Now I am facing some signs of an older engine -- we're at 1950 hours on our 2007 -- but that doesn't mean I'm going to replace the engine or pull a jug. I've asked my mechanic to take a deeper look at our upcoming annual and determine what the best course of action will be. Nobody has yet suggested overhauling the engine (or even pulling a jug) despite a high time engine.

When it is time for an overhaul I also plan to use Penn Yan -- I've heard good things from multiple mechanics. The same mechanics who have advised me not to arbitrarily overhaul an engine.
Pretty much ditto with everything Matt said and does as noted in his posting. My 2008 DA40 now has 2600 tach hours and the only engine work thus far was replacing one cylinder (burnt exhaust valve) at 1800 hours. I always cruise LOP and lean aggressively for all low-power ops (taxi, descent). Borescopes and quarterly oil analyses continue to be clean. When passing through 2000 hours I did notice oil consumption increasing from say 8 hours/qt to 5 hours/qt... but the consumption has remained steady at 5 hours/qt since then. Savvy and I will continue to monitor and will decide to overhaul if/when conditions dictate.
(knocking on wood)... YMMV.
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jeremywpb
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Re: Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by jeremywpb »

I am also in the Mike Bush camp of isn't broke don't fix it. We made the mistake of doing a lease back on it this year, I personally witnessed pilots without proper training trying to start the engine and backfiring the plane. Flying around without ever leaning the engine. Flying with low oil levels. It just breaks my heart to see the plane was abused. We had to replace a cylinder and another is bad. The board is actual voted to sell the plane as the prices have gone so high with them. Since we have volunteer A&P, IA if we redo the interior and engine/prop we will get the biggest return on the investment. Going to miss flying this great plane. Thanks for the suggestion on shops.
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Re: Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by MarkA »

I'm also in the Mike Busch (Savvy Aviation) camp and recommend his books on aircraft maintenance (Manifesto and Mike Busch on Engines) which I found very informative and worth reading.

https://resources.savvyaviation.com/res ... kes-books/

He published a recent article on the approach Savvy Aviation took to help managed a flight club's IO360 to 5,000 hours (included below) that is also worth reading.

https://mailchi.mp/savvyaviation.com/1j ... 585f1f6158
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Charles
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Re: Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by Charles »

I also like everything Mike Busch says about engines, but my 1965-hour engine has started showing a little bit of metal shavings in the filter. Not enough to cause concern to my mechanic, but enough for me so we will get it done in the fall. I got a quote from a very reputable shop here in Canada few months ago for 28.5k CAD (22.7k USD), plus sales taxes.
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Re: Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by Derek »

Charles, that’s a great price! Let us know how it goes and what the shop name is if you don’t mind. After reading the other comments I wonder if you should look at the savvy $750/yr program and see if it’s worth extending the life of the original engine.
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Re: Engine overhaul time - Lycoming IO-360-M1A

Post by Charles »

A fellow DA40 owner up here had an OH done by the shop in question and he says it was flawless, so I'm following his recommendation. As for extending the engine, it would not avoid the expense, it would only delay it, so I figure I might as well bite the bullet and do it, and I'll be good for 20 years at the rate I fly.
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