G1000 NXi Phase III

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chili4way
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by chili4way »

While someone at TC may be saying that they have an issue with Garmin's software development process, it is cover for something else and, in this case, likely the relationship with Diamond. ... This is why I discount the story that it is the Canadian regulatory side that initiated holding things up. Or, put another way, if they are it is because someone moved the application to the bottom of the pile for reasons that have not been explained. We are not seeing the whole story here.
Appreciate the regulatory insider perspective! Completely agree that we are not seeing the whole story. The issue seems unlikely to be technical, although NXI was the first time TC was the initial certification agency for a Diamond aircraft. If there's a software glitch problem down the road, it's all on them (ref: Boeing and the FAA on the 737-MAX). I can speculate how this, and perhaps subtle differences in the wording of Canada's regulations, could result in a different technical goalpost location with higher requirements.

That said, I would not bet against you regarding the bottleneck actually being relational, operational, or both. For the good of the Diamond owner community, let's hope they get this sorted out soon. At this point, it doesn't matter to us owners who initiated the issue. Certification appears to be the bottleneck that is now limiting Diamond's ability to provide the next round of software updates, i.e. Phase III for NXI and V15 for the DA40 G1000 legacy systems.
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by mfdutra »

Cirrus hasn’t been too quick lately. They took over 2 years to release an upgrade for Perspective+ (NXi) and, while they introduced some new features, they messed up really bad with things that had been working for almost 20 years. In the latest NXi version (N8), Jeppesen ChartView takes ~2 minutes to load any new chart, rendering ChartView almost useless when you actually need a chart. I complained loudly and the response is pretty much wait for the next release, which nobody has an idea when it will come.

I have a DA62 to be delivered next July and I’m growing concerned it may not come with Phase III and the GWX-75. That will be very frustrating, especially coming from a Cirrus with a lot of features that I really appreciate, like visual approaches, surface watch, etc.
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by pietromarx »

I hope that your DA-62 comes with the latest commercially available systems, especially if these products have been approved by the world's most sophisticated regulators (e.g. FAA, EASA). Given Diamond's role as an airframe provider -- essentially, an integrator of their products and third-party products -- it only makes sense for their customers to expect the latest.

Let's hope that Diamond builds their software capabilities and solves any regulatory issues they may / may not have.

I hear you on the TC side with new airplanes. The regulatory pool is certainly experienced with having Bombardier, Gulfstream, DHC, ... in the country. It may be that Diamond is new to working with them in this way and it can definitely be a rough learning curve getting to (or, in the case of Boeing, maintaining) a successful relationship with one's regulators.

See the late-breaking https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... omposites/ for an example of how rough it can get ...
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by Paul »

chili4way wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:06 pm
Paul wrote:$350k. Maybe a little more depending on prop and condition.
That would be a very good deal compared to the ~$490,000 you might pay for a used DA40-XLS with NXI Phase II if you could even find one. Appreciate the answer.
Chris wrote:I would rather pay for a 2009 DA40-XLS that had been converted to G3X or equivalent platform that isn't orphaned.
What makes you say the G1000 NXI Phase II is orphaned?
I'm curious, are you saying a DA40-XLS with NXi exists? I thought none of the DA40s were upgradable and the only way to get NXi in a 40 is to buy a new XLT (excluding the NG). I gave you my number based on the $250k price you quoted without. I was trying to say I'd pay $100k for NXi plus a fresh engine. I would not pay $490k. I'd just order a new one if that was the price.

I'm going to buy a DA40 in the next few months so I've been watching this thread closely. What I'm trying to decide is how worried I am about the legacy G1000 becoming unserviceable over time and how much I care about NXi features. I fly with all the NXi features currently because I have plane with a G3000. And while I use all of those features, I'm not sure they would make that much of a difference in a DA40.

What I find a little depressing is that when I purchased my first DA40 in 2007, it was state of the art. G1000 with SVT. XM & TCAS when the latest from Cirrus had Avidyne. Now fifteen years later, the most cutting edge used DA40 I can buy is no better.
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chili4way
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by chili4way »

If there are enough DA40-XLS (i.e., G1000 + GFC700) owners willing to spend $100K to upgrade their airplane to G1000 NXI Phase II, there could be a way to get there. It would need to be presented to Diamond as a business opportunity. If the $100K includes a replacement overhauled engine, that may or may not be enough to fund the avionics overhaul. However, even at $100K for the avionics alone, the next best alternative is a whole lot more expensive (for the same NXI capabilities).

We understand that there would be no certification issue (i.e., no new STC) because the upgrade would bring the planes to match what is already certified in production as part of the current type certificate. What would need to be worked out are the technical details of which LRUs and wiring harnesses need to be replaced as part of the upgrade. That could vary slightly by model year and would affect parts and labor. However, the need to install a GFC700 (or replace a KAP140) won't be necessary.

Meanwhile, owners of DA40 aircraft with Legacy G1000 panels are looking forward to the V15 system software upgrade next year. How long Garmin will be able to continue providing hardware support for legacy LRUs is a topic of concern for owners. However, this is not an issue unique to Diamond owners.
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by MackAttack »

Thanks again to the DAN group for their productive and informative conversations with Diamond. If I am reading this right, it appears that DA62s delivered 2d quarter 2022 or later will ship with NXi Phase 3 hardware/software and the GWX75 radar (assuming a buyer purchases that option). All subject to whatever caveats on timing Diamond has issued relating to certification, etc. Also good to know that the DA50 already has the Phase 3 improvements.

Thanks!
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by Rick »

I'm not a regulatory guru, but what is stopping some Garmin-savvy avionics shop from just upgrading a legacy G1000 DA40XLS to G1000 NXi via a 337? Basically, a "G1000 upgrade" - to a configuration that is already being sold by Diamond. The justification would be that new NXi features provide an improvement in safety. It would certainly be a "Major" Repair or Alteration, but isn't that the purpose of the 337? How "major" does an alteration have to be before it doesn't qualify anymore...
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by Colin »

I would imagine that you would need a bunch of information from Diamond, which they are probably unwilling to part with (they will cite liability concerns, if patterns follow). Just to move my plane from a KAP140 DA42 to a GFC700 DA42 required major work in the under-luggage-area section, since the LRUs needed a different box (possibly primarily for ventilation if I recall the conversation in the factory correctly). So you have a weight and balance change and, possibly, some structural work for the new box.

You are replacing all of the engine instrumentation. A bunch of stuff needs to change (x-speeds were all different for my change, even though they shouldn't be). I presume that to make that change with newly built planes meant a bunch of testing with the new configuration and, obviously, a bunch of new manual pages. So you'd have to get those from Diamond as well.

(And, as far as 337 is concerned, there was a Twin Navion that was built with just an STC. It flew and everything and they were preparing to start selling them and the local FSDO finally came to their senses and said, "What just a second here..." So they couldn't get any additional approvals. But that was certainly more than major and it *did* get approved at first.)
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by nworthin »

CFIDave wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:09 pm This week, DAN owner representatives held a videoconference with Diamond in which we were given updated information about upcoming NXi Phase III software availability and features.
Dave,

I'm a bit confused by the chart you posted. Since I haven't received my DA62 yet (next month promised) and I'm not entirely sure what Phase II does include, do the X's represent features already in Phase II and "Avail" is what's coming in Phase III? Or do the X's mean "no feature for you..."?
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Re: G1000 NXi Phase III

Post by ememic99 »

Diamond_Dan wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:38 pm I believe I asked before but I will be skeptical until I see it - will GDU Version 15 support the KAP? It would be re-assuring to get a recent confirmation.
Yes, GDU v 15 will support KAP140. In addition, it will support different versions of GIA63W (not only -01). It will not support GIA63.
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