MS Flight Sim 2020

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CFIDave
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by CFIDave »

What I had in mind for a 3rd-party G1000 product for FS2020 is from companies like MindStar Aviation:
https://www.mindstaraviation.com/Product_G1000.html

Unfortunately this product only works with the previous generation Microsoft Flight Simulator, not FS2020.

(MindStar is also supplier of all G1000 software that Redbird uses in its simulators.)
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dmloftus
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by dmloftus »

Just checked latest patches for MSFS 2020. After a 26GB download, the G1000 is still almost unusable for IFR practice. Here is a link to the MSFS Forum for G1000/3000 issues:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/ga ... /241186/49

Thankfully there are some actual pilots taking the time to document the long list of bugs. I've turned in a handful, must be >100 bugs noted in the forum. One user said it best, calling Asobo's G1000 a "hot mess". Very disappointing, hope they get some bandwidth to fix some of the most basic bugs and missing functionality. This is at best a toy for kids in its current state.
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by gtmize »

I've acquired X-Plane 11 to compare to 2020
In 2020 have to use DA40NG as XLS not avail
In X-Plane 11 was able to find non NG DA40
My current focus is on basic maneuvers Stick & Rudder and so far X Plane flies closer to my XLS ..
In both the controls are still hyper sensitive twitchy in turns and on final approach
but XPlane seems more stable
however recent patches ( hate those downloads) in 2020 appear to have improved the stablity issue
Haven't been using G1000 features yet .. just handflying
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Lou
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by Lou »

I am interested in this thread. When I did my training in 2015 I asked my instructor about flight sims. He said in his experience that students who used flight sims needed a lot more training because they developed and had to unlearn bad habits. Since then I have been reluctant to try it. Is it always a bad/good idea? I just don’t know and would like to hear some thoughts.
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by Shodan01 »

I purchased X-plane (no flight controls) only to learn the G1000. I think it really has helped me get some experience as I transition into my DA40, as I only flew with steam gauges previously.
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by Barry »

Checkout RealSimgear.com for an interesting G1000 sim solution to go with FS2020. I am building a new PC with the latest RYzen processor and NVidia 3000 series graphic card to go with it. Can't log the sim hours, but it will be great for staying proficient given that there isnt any real opprotunity for IMC here in Colorado. Clouds mean only thunderstorms or ice here. I'll report on it when I get it built. Right now the processor and video card are on backorder.
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by dmloftus »

Lou wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:22 pm I am interested in this thread. When I did my training in 2015 I asked my instructor about flight sims. He said in his experience that students who used flight sims needed a lot more training because they developed and had to unlearn bad habits. Since then I have been reluctant to try it. Is it always a bad/good idea? I just don’t know and would like to hear some thoughts.
Your flight instructor may be right if a new student has spent years on flight sims and expects the real plane to handle like the flight sim. The actual physics of the plane can be approximated for stall speed, cruise, etc, but anything you can buy in a box or download online is not going to give anyone the actual feel of a real aircraft. That's not why I use flight sims.

But I find flight sims to be invaluable for several things. Flying IFR in hard IMC takes practice and repetition to do well. Using cockpit automation (especially something as capable as a G1000) efficiently to help reduce pilot workload is important, but very time consuming and expensive to achieve in the real aircraft to be highly competent. Before I go fly practice approaches under the hood, I routinely fly them on the flight sim (I used to use FS-X years ago but mostly using X-Plane 11 for past 5 years) just to get the waypoint sequence, coordination between G1000 and Foreflight, and the G1000 button-pushing practice (even if virtual with mouse clicks). I even verbalize the plate in a mock briefing sometimes to keep sharp. By the time I get to the plane, I know the plates well and I'm already comfortable with the necessary steps to execute a smooth approach. Loading in cross-winds with low ceilings on a sim can even help hand-eye coordination when it comes to hand-flying an ILS to minimums. Keeping the needles centered takes practice (as least for me ;-) Not exactly the real world feel, but very helpful for process.

One consideration is your setup. You will never get any benefit for the feel without some decent, moderately priced equipment. I have a Saitek Cessna flight yoke (from my 172 rental days), Cessna rudder pedals, and throttle quadrant. I switch the yoke for a good flight stick that I keep centered like the DA40. Flying a sim with mouse and keyboard will give you very little benefit for the feel.

The other thing I find incredibly useful is flight planning to new destinations, especially for mountainous terrain. While XP11 and FS-X don't share the same photo-realism of FS2020, they are remarkably close to actual terrain, ie height of peaks and valleys, etc. Just working with Foreflight is a bit more difficult, even with my 3D subscription. All of these are light-years ahead of flight planning with a VFR chart. When I lived in California, I took a rental 172 over to Yosemite, Tahoe, etc. While the POH says its ceiling is 14K MSL, that is generous for most rental aircraft. Once you get a rental above 12,000ft your climb rate is maybe 100ft/min. So you need to understand the terrain you will encounter extremely well. I must have flown practice routes 20 times (a great thing about flight sims is you can speed them up by 2X, 4X, 16X, etc) continually tweaking my routes. Each time, I am pausing the sim, rotating about the aircraft, to look at clearances, bailout points, etc. All the while adjusting the route in Foreflight to perfect it. By the time I took the actual flight, I knew all the major obstacles and had a great flight plan with over 50 waypoints that steered me along the most scenic but relatively safest paths. It was amazing how close the terrain heights in the flight sims were to the actual world.

Last August, my son and I flew our DA40 about 6000 miles from Atlanta to visit a bunch of national parks out west, ie Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce, Arches, Yellowstone, Tetons... Loading my flight plans into Foreflight then into XP11 helped me plot the ideal routes and even gave me a feel for some tricky airfields along the way.

So I don't discount your instructor's comments that, if used improperly, flight sims can teach bad habits. But for an experienced pilot using flight sims as a planning and IFR practice tool, I find them invaluable. That is why my prior posts in this thread indicate such disappointment at the lack of capabilities in FS2020. I was hoping I would have an even better tool in my flight bag but it looks like it will be awhile.
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by Rich »

I used to regularly use a Redbird FMX for currency work. It was great to practice process and procedures, but it didn't emulate the flight characteristics of aircraft it supposedly was configured for. The most egregious example was, when flying the A36 setup it wouldn't hold a turn unless you kept rudder into the turn. Talk about a bad habit. And its ROC and cruise speeds seemed to be arbitrary and not particularly tied to power settings.

This was a unit in which I had a financial investment. It turned out to be a poor investment. Rentals, even to this day (I am no longer involved and wrote off the loss), barely pay the maintenance fees to Redbird.
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by Barry »

Agree totally that unless you are in a full motion sim it is very difficult to emulate actual flight conditions. There is no such thing as inertia sitting at your desk. On the other hand, being totally proficient with the G1000 especially in the departure, approach and missed approach phases of flight is not something that any of us should take lightly. The sim using something like the RealSimGear G1000 allows to operate the G1000, autopilot, PFD, MFD almost identically to the actual plane. This alone especially in single pilot IFR is worth the price of admission. I also love the ability to be able to get a reasonable picture of what these phases look like generally speaking in specific approaches I intend to fly. But there is no simulation that can do justice to either popping out at minimums or not and having to go missed in the real deal.
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Re: MS Flight Sim 2020

Post by CFIDave »

I think you need to ask what your objective is in flying a simulator.

I found Garmin's G1000 PC Trainer program to be invaluable when I was working on my Instrument Rating and learning the G1000 and GFC700 autopilot. All I needed was a laptop with external monitor (using one screen for PFD and the other for MFD) combined with a cheap joystick. I figured out how to load the most current approaches from the NavData file on my plane's SDCard, and then practiced flying the same instrument approaches that I flew during my lessons, but in the PC Trainer.

Unlike most simulators that do a terrible job of replicating G1000 functionality, Garmin's PC Trainer operated EXACTLY the same as my DA40's G1000. So after an Instrument Rating lesson where I'd screwed up an approach in the DA40, I could go home and figure out exactly what I had done wrong -- and determine the right way to fly it. It was just about the best $25 I'd ever spent!
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