Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

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marcuso
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Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by marcuso »

I am the owner of one of the Air Force training DA-40s which is a 2009. I believe that it has a WAAS GPS source (though WAAS option was not purchased) and it does include TAS-600 traffic. I am in the Seattle area and I was only able to get one quote for an ADS-B install. The quote is for GTX-345R install and includes a 40 hour labor estimate. Total estimate w/o tax is $10,235.

I am a bit overwhelmed by the different options available. From what I could see, the following might be reasonable options:

GDX-345R
GDX-45R
GDL-82 (no ADS-B on G1000)
UAvionix TailBeacon (no ADS-B on G1000)

The avionics shop indicated the the GDL-82 isn't available for the plane. Might they be mistaken?

For the Garmin options? Do new antennas need to be installed? Is this the most time consuming part of the installation?

What is the difference between GDX-45R and GDX-345R?

If I go the GDX route, does having the TAS-600 help? Should I have it pulled?

Is the TailBeacon an option for the plane? I haven't seen it show up in conversation on the forums. Any reason?

Is the quote above competitive? Any advise on getting a more competitively priced install? Should I pass on any specific installation instructions to the avionics shop to save time and money?

Any input or response on any of the above questions would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by CFIDave »

The only option you listed that will work on your G1000 DA40 is the GTX-345R.

The Garmin 45R is the experimental/homebuilt (not certified) aircraft version of the GTX345R.
The GDL-82 and TailBeacon won't integrate with the G1000.

Your estimate for GTX345R is a little high, but within range of what most people have paid (long before shops raised prices due to the approaching FAA 2020 ADS-B mandate). Keep the TAS-600; it will discover transponder-only targets that can be correlated with ADS-B targets by the GTX345R. There are multiple options available for the GTX345R's required 3rd GPS antenna connection; search the forum here to read about these...
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Re: Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by Rich »

Tailbeacon would be a challenge in a DA40. This is designed for planes with a tail-mounted white position light. And the Skybeacon is also incompatible with the wingtip mounted A600 (or its LED equivalent replacement options)
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210.
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Re: Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by marcuso »

Does GDL-82 not work at all with G1000 or just not ADS-B in? Can I just do the GDL-82 for compliance without having ADS-B in?
CFIDave wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:24 pm
The only option you listed that will work on your G1000 DA40 is the GTX-345R.

The Garmin 45R is the experimental/homebuilt (not certified) aircraft version of the GTX345R.
The GDL-82 and TailBeacon won't integrate with the G1000.

Your estimate for GTX345R is a little high, but within range of what most people have paid (long before shops raised prices due to the approaching FAA 2020 ADS-B mandate). Keep the TAS-600; it will discover transponder-only targets that can be correlated with ADS-B targets by the GTX345R. There are multiple options available for the GTX345R's required 3rd GPS antenna connection; search the forum here to read about these...
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Re: Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by marcuso »

Rich wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:36 pm
Tailbeacon would be a challenge in a DA40. This is designed for planes with a tail-mounted white position light. And the Skybeacon is also incompatible with the wingtip mounted A600 (or its LED equivalent replacement options)
Thanks for the response. Would Skybeacon be compatible if the "SkyLight" was also installed?

https://uavionix.com/products/skylight/
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Re: Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by Rich »

marcuso wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:52 pm
Rich wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:36 pm
Tailbeacon would be a challenge in a DA40. This is designed for planes with a tail-mounted white position light. And the Skybeacon is also incompatible with the wingtip mounted A600 (or its LED equivalent replacement options)
Thanks for the response. Would Skybeacon be compatible if the "SkyLight" was also installed?

https://uavionix.com/products/skylight/
No. Neither provides the required white rear position light. uAvionics has demurred on providing a replacement for the fairly widely used Whelen A600 units and similar units. There has been some discussion here about cobbling something to separately provide that rear position light somehow on the wingtip, but that definitely requires wingtip modification (compromising the otherwise modest installation cost) and likely a crappy-looking result.
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210.
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Re: Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by marcuso »

Would the GTX335R be the best choice for just ADS-B out? What should I expect for installation time / cost?

The reason that I am looking for cheapest ADS-B out is that I am not thrilled with Garmin and I anticipate ripping out the G1000s and replacing with Dynon or similar option if it become available in the future. I don't want to invest more money in the Garmin system.
marcuso wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:51 pm
Does GDL-82 not work at all with G1000 or just not ADS-B in? Can I just do the GDL-82 for compliance without having ADS-B in?
CFIDave wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:24 pm
The only option you listed that will work on your G1000 DA40 is the GTX-345R.

The Garmin 45R is the experimental/homebuilt (not certified) aircraft version of the GTX345R.
The GDL-82 and TailBeacon won't integrate with the G1000.

Your estimate for GTX345R is a little high, but within range of what most people have paid (long before shops raised prices due to the approaching FAA 2020 ADS-B mandate). Keep the TAS-600; it will discover transponder-only targets that can be correlated with ADS-B targets by the GTX345R. There are multiple options available for the GTX345R's required 3rd GPS antenna connection; search the forum here to read about these...
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Re: Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by Rich »

The 335R is a less expensive unit but installation might not be much cheaper. Being in the Seattle area, you're up against it with that big fat Mode C veil to deal with.

I noticed an interesting quirk with both the 345 and 335 units. You can get integrated GPS or Diversity (think the looming Canada requirement), but not both.

I'm pondering replacing my KT74 with one of these units because of the diversity deal, but fortunately do not require the integrated GPS.
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210.
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Re: Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by arksat »

Marcus,

I installed GTX345R with $12K. I was also hoping to use GDL 82, however:
"The GDL 82 can only be used with Mode A/C transponders. The DA-40 comes standard with a GTX 33, which is a mode S transponder and is not compatible with the GDL 82."
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6065&hilit=gdl82&start=20#p65735

I also checked GDL 82 installation manual to find this was correct, unfortunately :(
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Re: Questions from ADS-B install procrastinator - TailBeacon?

Post by Steve »

I was hoping to use the Skybeacon for my aircraft, but as others have mentioned, the issue of the wingtip-mounted rear position light made that a non-starter. I was able to use the GDL-82, because my airplane is so old (vintage) equipped with a KT-76C (mode A/C) transponder. The GDL 82 installation was fairly straightforward, the only extra expense being the need for a combo VHF/GPS antenna:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6911

I use a Scout and Foreflight on my iPad for ADS-B In.

Steve
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