GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- brandonpalmer
- 2 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:55 pm
- First Name: Brandon
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Airports: KMGJ
GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
For many years, I've been frustrated by flying to airports and then being charged unpredictable landing fees, ramp fees, security fee, etc. I don't have issue with being charged but have found the lack of easily accessible public information to be very frustrating. The FAA reports that some airports have landing fees but it's then a scavenger hunt to find the details and apply it to my aircraft; the other fees charged by FBOs are even more difficult to find. I've called FBOs to get fees ahead of time but then find that the amounts charged are different and I don't have much recourse.
All of this has prompted me over the past few months to build an online platform to provide access to both officially reported fees and pilot reported fees and I'm now almost ready to open it up to the general public. I expect to make the product live in early September. There is both a crowd sourced portion and a paid access portion.
I would love to get some feedback about the direction I've gone with this and to gauge the level of interest. I have a lot of existing functionality and am looking to get some interested Alpha / Beta testers.
Thanks everyone,
- Brandon
All of this has prompted me over the past few months to build an online platform to provide access to both officially reported fees and pilot reported fees and I'm now almost ready to open it up to the general public. I expect to make the product live in early September. There is both a crowd sourced portion and a paid access portion.
I would love to get some feedback about the direction I've gone with this and to gauge the level of interest. I have a lot of existing functionality and am looking to get some interested Alpha / Beta testers.
Thanks everyone,
- Brandon
- 1911Tex
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 1:38 am
- First Name: Larry
- Aircraft Type: DA20-C1
- Aircraft Registration: N389DC
- Airports: KGTU
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
I propose we boycott those charging landing fees to G/A ! It's expensive enough just to keep flying!
- Colin
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
- First Name: Colin
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N972RD
- Airports: KFHR
- Has thanked: 319 times
- Been thanked: 527 times
Re: GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
Technically KSMO charges a takeoff fee. I think because they are a public airport they are not allowed to charge a landing fee.
This is a great idea. It seems like it will be a good gross-grained view of things. It gets very complicated quickly, though. I have to pay a ramp fee at KSBA unless I am there only ten minutes, then it is half off. And free if it is an Angel Flight. And free if I purchase 25 gallons of fuel (I think that's the right number). There are no areas where you can get off of the field without being on an FBO ramp, so it is effectively a landing fee.
When I land at KBLI near the San Juan islands I do not pay any of the handling or ramp fees because of the secretive club I belong to. The same club also reduces the price I pay for JetA, but you are not allowed to tell non-members the price. (At KVNY it is more than half off the retail price.)
Those fuel club prices are available via an API and ForeFlight now displays them correctly. Before they teamed up (well, bought, I guess) JetFuelX.com, their display of fuel prices was sort of useless to me. If I am looking at an airport and it looks like it is $7.15 a gallon but it turns out to be $2.70 a gallon (true example), with a plane carrying 75 gallons that's the hotel room for the night.
So I hope you are working on an API for the site. That would also allow someone ambitious to build an app and, particularly, an app that could cache the information along a route. Flying east from KMKC (Kansas City) yesterday, I made the decision in flight to land at KCAK (Canton) instead of KBKL (Burke Lakefront) in part based on fuel cost but also based on a previous trip and the knowledge that Signature at KBKL charged a ramp fee.
(I am not against ramp fees. When I landed at KBKL they took care of the plane and let me have a car for almost two hours to go to lunch. I used their air-conditioned nap room for 16 minutes before continuing my journey and enjoyed the WiFi. That has to be paid for with something.)
This is a great idea. It seems like it will be a good gross-grained view of things. It gets very complicated quickly, though. I have to pay a ramp fee at KSBA unless I am there only ten minutes, then it is half off. And free if it is an Angel Flight. And free if I purchase 25 gallons of fuel (I think that's the right number). There are no areas where you can get off of the field without being on an FBO ramp, so it is effectively a landing fee.
When I land at KBLI near the San Juan islands I do not pay any of the handling or ramp fees because of the secretive club I belong to. The same club also reduces the price I pay for JetA, but you are not allowed to tell non-members the price. (At KVNY it is more than half off the retail price.)
Those fuel club prices are available via an API and ForeFlight now displays them correctly. Before they teamed up (well, bought, I guess) JetFuelX.com, their display of fuel prices was sort of useless to me. If I am looking at an airport and it looks like it is $7.15 a gallon but it turns out to be $2.70 a gallon (true example), with a plane carrying 75 gallons that's the hotel room for the night.
So I hope you are working on an API for the site. That would also allow someone ambitious to build an app and, particularly, an app that could cache the information along a route. Flying east from KMKC (Kansas City) yesterday, I made the decision in flight to land at KCAK (Canton) instead of KBKL (Burke Lakefront) in part based on fuel cost but also based on a previous trip and the knowledge that Signature at KBKL charged a ramp fee.
(I am not against ramp fees. When I landed at KBKL they took care of the plane and let me have a car for almost two hours to go to lunch. I used their air-conditioned nap room for 16 minutes before continuing my journey and enjoyed the WiFi. That has to be paid for with something.)
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
- brandonpalmer
- 2 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:55 pm
- First Name: Brandon
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Airports: KMGJ
Re: GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
Thanks for the feedback.
You have pointed to one of the most tricky issues which needs to be addressed (lots of odd edge cases). I've collected data for a dozen of so random airports to get some of the use cases and worked the backend around those with additional flexibility to adjust as more random cases come in.
The fees charged by airports are one layer but then the additional layer of secret clubs at FBOs certainly makes it way more complex. My current thought is to collect / save what is possible but use pilot-contributed feed to produce a general aggregate truth which will be at least mostly correct for most users.
There is a backend API and I would anticipate needing to allow access to folks like ForeFlight / Garmin / etc but all of that is also meaningless until there is a critical mass of data. Fuel is somewhat easy in comparison!
You have pointed to one of the most tricky issues which needs to be addressed (lots of odd edge cases). I've collected data for a dozen of so random airports to get some of the use cases and worked the backend around those with additional flexibility to adjust as more random cases come in.
The fees charged by airports are one layer but then the additional layer of secret clubs at FBOs certainly makes it way more complex. My current thought is to collect / save what is possible but use pilot-contributed feed to produce a general aggregate truth which will be at least mostly correct for most users.
There is a backend API and I would anticipate needing to allow access to folks like ForeFlight / Garmin / etc but all of that is also meaningless until there is a critical mass of data. Fuel is somewhat easy in comparison!
- 1911Tex
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 1:38 am
- First Name: Larry
- Aircraft Type: DA20-C1
- Aircraft Registration: N389DC
- Airports: KGTU
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
Come on down to KGTU, beautiful central Texas hill country. No landing fees, No takeoff fees, $5 over night, first night free with fuel purchase, self service $3.40 gal. 100LL, over 100k safe operations a year, terrific tower folks. Located equal distance from San Antonio, Dallas and Houston for those who like that sort of thing. Great folks, 2 free courtesy cars, air conditioned pilot lounge and conference room for unlimited great naps; great BBQ, pleasant winters, more places for $99 hamburgers within a 45 minute flight than you could explore for years. The down side is August, its pretty brutal. Problem is, too many folks who live up North are moving here and diluting our Texas heritage !!!
- carym
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1021
- Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:00 pm
- First Name: cary
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N336TS
- Airports: KTYQ
- Has thanked: 37 times
- Been thanked: 83 times
Re: GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
Colin,Colin wrote: Flying east from KMKC (Kansas City) yesterday, I made the decision in flight to land at KCAK (Canton) instead of KBKL (Burke Lakefront) in part based on fuel cost but also based on a previous trip and the knowledge that Signature at KBKL charged a ramp fee.
Doing an Angel Flight from the west coast all the way to Canton is certainly heroic. You should be congratulated. However, personally I am disappointed that you flew right over my house and didn't even stop to let me buy you a $300 hamburger
By the way, this invitation is open to any DANer who wants to stop by the Indianapolis area. Even though I am without my DA42 (although still making monthly payments on it), I have strong emotional ties to this group, several of whom have helped my in the past.
Cary
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
- Colin
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
- First Name: Colin
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N972RD
- Airports: KFHR
- Has thanked: 319 times
- Been thanked: 527 times
Re: GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
Cary, if I land at KEYE you will hear from me.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
- carym
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1021
- Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:00 pm
- First Name: cary
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N336TS
- Airports: KTYQ
- Has thanked: 37 times
- Been thanked: 83 times
Re: GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
Rick's Boatyard is right there for a good meal. My cell is 651-528-9365 (leave a message)Colin wrote:Cary, if I land at KEYE you will hear from me.
Cary
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
- Colin
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
- First Name: Colin
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N972RD
- Airports: KFHR
- Has thanked: 319 times
- Been thanked: 527 times
Re: GA Landing, Ramp, Parking Fees, etc Database
Already in my phone. I went to the Boatyard last time I was there, but we were there for breakfast and they had none, even on a weekend morning. Ended up at an IHOP.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)