Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

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blsewardjr
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Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby blsewardjr » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:02 pm

The latest (G6) Cirrus SR20 is getting a 215hp version of the Lycoming IO390. It would be nice if Diamond Canada would match it in the DA40 -- https://www.flyer.co.uk/lycoming-engine ... -upgrades/
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Re: Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby krellis » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:22 pm

I asked Christian Dries about this product improvement specifically. The answer that followed is why I sold my DA-40 share - "The North American Avgas market is dead".

I hope the Chinese folks will work with Mr. Maurer - who I believe to be a very capable engineer and leader - to develop an improved DA40. I also hope there will be an emphasis on product and software support for the various flavors of DA20's and DA40's that currently exist.
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Re: Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby Erik » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:48 am

blsewardjr wrote:The latest (G6) Cirrus SR20 is getting a 215hp version of the Lycoming IO390. It would be nice if Diamond Canada would match it in the DA40 -- https://www.flyer.co.uk/lycoming-engine ... -upgrades/


I am flying a Mooney now for several years - so also participating in Mooneyspace - ad I have seen comments by the several people who have gotten the IO390 STC that is available for the M20J upgrade form the IO360.

It is not a well liked STC for 2 main reasons.
-mysteriously it does not seem to perform as promised. And in the M20J install it seems to run hot - but I suppose it might not in the SR20 if well engineered from the start.
-cylinder replacements are fantastically expensive for the IO390. Some people say it would be cheaper to maintain an IO550. With that in mind, I would sooner an SR22 if considering a cirrus.
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Re: Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby Keith M » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:55 am

One of the reasons for the DA40's excellent safety record is its twin spar wings with metal fuel tanks between the spars. This limits the amount of fuel it can carry, compared with the SR2x, which has a single spar, wet wing and a corresponding tendency to catch fire in crashes. Diamond may be averse to putting a more powerful AVGAS engine in the DA40, because it would compromise its range. A similar situation arises with the IO360 powered DA42s, which are only suitable for flight schools.
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Re: Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby Erik » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:25 pm

True.

But wow those are big wings - seems like one should be able to fit more fuel than that.

A Mooney that has wings total 1ft smaller, can have fuel capacities as high as 130gal I think in their wet wings.
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Re: Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby Lance Murray » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:14 pm

The spin characteristics are adversely affected by weight being added out near the wing tip.

Erik wrote:True.

But wow those are big wings - seems like one should be able to fit more fuel than that.

A Mooney that has wings total 1ft smaller, can have fuel capacities as high as 130gal I think in their wet wings.
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Re: Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby rwtucker » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:22 pm

I have a friend who has one in his experimental. He says the fuel burn isn't much different (one factor may be a slight increase in efficiency due to roller tappets) but there is a five minute restriction on full power before being restricted to 100% defined as 27.2 inches and 200 HP. Angle valve cylinders are a bunch more expensive but this family of engines doesn't burn them out much. Then there is the question of how much speed to expect from this slight boost in HP. Maybe 4-5 kts. assuming both had tuned exhaust?

It looks to me like this makes more sense as a factory choice than a field upgrade.
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Re: Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby Antoine » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:20 am

I have had talks with Lycoming's Echelon people a few years ago regarding an STC to put the IO-390 into the DA40. (Echelon is the group in charge of making these STCs happen and funding them).
The speed gain would be small (5-7 knots calculated).
The real benefit was the massively increased climb rate. Adding 35 HP is like adding a small turbo with none of the disadvantages.

I think this kind of effort only makes sense as part of a major redesign of the DA40 - similar to the cIrrus G3 to G5 step. The DA40 airframe has tremendous untapped potential. Let's hope the new owners give it its chance.
A "DA41" could sit between the SR20 and SR22 and be positioned as the contrarian choice of "those who know".
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Re: Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby Joey » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:19 pm

this is easy "low hanging fruit" for the marketing folks to pick up on. Regarding the fuel burn, there are several people who have opted for the 40 gal standard tanks, presumably because of the CG gain, but to those with 50 gal tanks who rarely fill them, the IO-390 would be ideal. My bladder range is substantially less than the fuel range. :)
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Re: Cirrus SR20 switches to Lycoming IO390

Postby Antoine » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:47 am

Last year, the SR20 was seriously catching up on the DA40 in sales. I think the G6 version, primarily because of its improved airframe, is likely to outsell the DA40XLT from now on.
Ironically, I believe the DA40 airframe has the potential to literally wipe-out the SR20 (and pick up some additional 30+ sales per year in NA) and even eat the SR22's lunch.
A back of the envelope calculation shows ROI in the same year.

Starting a thread - in case DAI wants to hear about us :)

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