Question DA42 all weather operations (north west) Europe

[ATP]

Hello All,

First of all many thanks for this interesting forum. I already found lots of interesting information.

I would be interested to buy a DA42, but I have couple of questions.

I want to operate the aircraft all year round (region uk / holland / germany ...)
Basicly not the greatest weather in winter. I have sufficient experience in winter weather, so pilot experience is not an issue.

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1)How does the aircraft handle the icing conditions we face in north europe most of the days? (FIKI ofcourse)
I would require the aircraft to fly on most of the days, ofcourse unless extreme weather. Would the FIKI aircraft be able to handle most of the winter days? Does the TKS handle light to moderate icing well?
So I'm mainly looking for people with good experience operating the DA42 in icing conditions.

2) How is the comfort of the aircraft in the back?

3) How reliable is the aircraft with the Austro AE300 engine?

Many thanks for your help. I will probably come up with more questions.

Thanks for helping!

[robert63]

Hi,

I have close to 800 hours now on DA42 doing allweather ops in central Europe. Never ran across a situation where the TKS couldn't cope with the icing. Average consumption is approx. 1 l of TKS liquid per flight hour. Icing is not the biggest issue in winter, this is mainly fog with less than 200 feet vertical visibility. And this is a problem for almost all GA aircrafts.
We operate our new DA42NG for 1 year now and did 230 hours during this period. No issue with the engines at all so far. I had some issues with DA42NG's before like wastegate problems. I also know of timing belt problems.
I feel much more comfortable now with weather radar and satellite weather (ADL120) since I had a CB experience before.
So I consider the DA42 an allweather aircraft even in our climate. If you have to cross the alps frequently maybe this might be a little bit more difficult, but in the north its pretty flat.

I don't know so much about the comfort on the back seats, but it is like the back seats in a small car.
A lot of the older DA42 have a problem with heating, so you might freeze your ass off at -30 Celsius OAT. The newer ones seem to be okay. Ours is just fine, but you need more than a T-shirt in particular for the left shoulder.

[ATP]

Hello Robert,

Many thanks for the reply.
Is the oxygen system good enough? My passenger wouldn't be too happy with anything more than the nose system, but I have been reading that some people get headaches at times.
What is your experience?

Other option is operating at 7-9000 feet, but icing wise might not always be the best idea.

[robert63]

We use nothing else than the nasal cannulas, the masks are really ugly. FL120 is fine without any oxygen, and up to FL140 for no longer than 30 minutes. Some people have headaches w/o oxygen, but usually nothing with. We have individual cannulas for each passenger for hygienic reasons. It is always required over the alps, but rather seldom up north. We refill the tank approx. every 80-100 hours. FL180 with oxygen works fine also for long flights up to 4-5 hours.
Trouble is when you unexpectedly want to fly higher due to weather or ATC request and the cannulas are in the back. With oxygen you can fly between FL60 and 180 which usually is enough range to avoid icing areas, except for the alpine regions.

[CFIDave]

Welcome to the forum, ATP. You might notice that we tend to use first names here (hint, hint )

To try and answer your questions:
1. I've only flown our DA42 a couple of times in Europe before/while ferrying it to the US, so I can't help you with icing in Europe. But so far in the US the plane has handled icing quite well with the TKS system -- you'll lose about 10 knots airspeed due to ice on unprotected surfaces like the nose, propeller spinners, winglets, etc.

2. The back seat is even more spacious than the front since the fuselage is wider there. There are spaces under the front seats for the feet of back seat passengers (which is also where considerable heat is provided for rear seat passengers). But the back seats don't have recline and lumbar adjustments like the front seats on our DA42.

3. Our DA42-VI's Austro engines now have 400 hours on them since new and only have had one issue -- a very tiny leak (that didn't ground the plane) on one of the radiators that was replaced under warranty. Oil consumption between 100 hour changes has been almost nonexistent -- less than 1 liter.

[carym]

Hello ATP and welcome

I have flown my DA42 in all weather, all year long with 850 hours of tach time on my 1.7 engines. For several years I flew in Minnesota and for the last 6+ years I have flown mostly in the Indiana area. This means that I encounter icing from September through April. Only once did I have a problem with moderate to severe icing. The TKS handled the situation keeping ice down from the critical surfaces, but the ice was accumulating so fast that it would fling off the propellers and bang on the ice shields (shaking the plane and scarring the passenger). When I landed, I still had about 1/4 inch of ice on the leading edge with more than an inch on the unprotected surface (the Lear jet who landed just before me had at least 1/2 to 3/4 inch on his leading edge). My approach to icing was, and remains, that I avoid icing at all times (except for maybe trace icing). I ask ATC for a change in altitude immediately if I encounter icing, and use the TKS to help me get out of the icing situation. The Great Lakes are known as icing machines in the winter-time and so I do go through a significant amount of TKS fluid each winter. I believe that the DA42 is as close to an all year long GA plane as one can get. I use Nexrad satellite data to keep me away from convective activity during the Spring-Summer-Fall, and icing Sigmets along with SkewT plots to avoid icing in the Fall-Winter-Spring time. I have had to cancel flights only rarely, but have postponed or delayed flights several hours or up to a day on many occasions to stay safe.