Sky-Tec starters

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Chris B
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Sky-Tec starters

Post by Chris B »

My starter died at the first stop - for cheap gas - enroute to AirVenture. Thankfully only 30 minutes away from home, rather than the next planned stop in Wyoming. Turning the ignition switch generated an audible click, but the starter would not fire. Having previously experienced similar behavior a couple of times in the last few months, the previously-successful “fix” (shut down and manually turn the prop once or twice) was unsuccessful. Not an auspicious beginning! :(

Richard Condy at Sky-Tec was kind enough to school me in the possible failure modes and history of our starters, and the symptoms were consistent with a failing solenoid due to a loose internal connection. He offered to overnight-ship a replacement, but fortunately after a couple of hours everything cooled-off enough that I was able to start the engine.

Absolute Aero in Hayward (close to home) had a rebuilt starter and completed the repair in an hour. So the overall delay was mercifully short! Though the Rockies crossing was now pushed into the afternoon. :lol:

After spending time in the Sky-Tec booth at OSH, here is a summary of what I've learned about Sky-Tec starters. Hopefully this will be helpful to others.

Chris

****************

For reference, four Sky-Tec starters are currently certified for the Lycoming IO-360 M1A.

Three were on display at OSH:

Image

Here is the fourth:

Image


NL/ec

Sky-Tec’s generally recommended starter for 24V Lycoming 360-powered aircraft is the “NL/ec”(extended crank). This uses a series-wound field, will crank without complaint until the battery dies, and has field-replaceable shear pins in case of kickback. Spares are attached to the mounting plate:

Image

The NL/ec is Sky-Tec’s most robust starter for the Lycoming IO-360 and perfect for flight schools. For an extra pound (0.5 kg) this seems like a great choice! But physically it will not fit in the DA40 due to the throttle linkage and hoses positioned directly behind the starter. :(


LS

The LS is the OE starter for the DA40 (the PM is simply an LS model with the solenoid on the opposite side). As noted in a prior DAN thread (link), the earliest castings were specifically designed to break in an effort to protect the flywheel ring gear in case of backfire. But having starter parts drop out the bottom of the cowling was understandably unpopular! So in late 2007 Sky-Tec reinforced the casting and also changed to a stronger alloy. The trade-off is that a bad kickback can damage the ring gear, and repairs require prop removal.

The primary failure mode of the flyweight starters (LS/PM/XLT) is over-cranking. Eventually the armature overheats and fails. Sky-Tec starters ship with the following operating limitations on a self-adhesive sticker:

Image

A cumulative 60 seconds of cranking should be sufficient to hot-start an IO-360 with reasonable technique. But if the engine floods, open the throttle and go take a break! Or plan to buy a replacement starter. :cry:

Solenoid improvements are the other major change in the LS. Pre-2014 models used a rivet to connect the internal wiring to the solenoid binding post. This rivet can sometimes work loose and fail. ‘Click’ but no motion is generally an early symptom (and should trigger prompt investigation!). This was the problem with my starter (and my "fix" was equivalent to simply jiggling loose wires!). Starting in 2014, Sky-Tec replaced the rivet in new and refurbished starters with a more robust through-bolt:

Image

FWIW, there are actually two solenoids to “Position” and “Hold” the pinion gear. My “new” (rebuilt) starter not only properly engages the pinion gear, but also cranks noticeably faster. Presumably the failing connections in the solenoid limited current flow to the motor. The faster crank enables much easier starts.


XLT

The “XLT” is essentially a refined and lighter version of the LS, PMA approved (link) for the Lycoming IO-360 M1A.

The remarkable 28% improvement in weight is due to design improvements, not cutting corners. Comparing the LS and XLT side-by-side reveals a number of sometimes subtle changes. While slightly smaller, apparently the motor is – if anything – more durable than the LS. The most visually obvious change is the recessed void at the mounting plate:

Image

Sky-Tec recommends the LS for the DA40 mostly because it’s Diamond’s OE starter. But the XLT would be my first choice for an owner-operated DA40 unless you have an aft W&B problem.


HT

Like the NL/ec, the HT uses a series-wound field that will crank until the battery dies. An internal clutch absorbs several severe kickbacks before needing factory service. So the HT is marketed for helicopters, which are apparently much more susceptible to kickback.

Generally the HT fits in the same spots as the LS, but nobody at Sky-Tec knows - for sure - if the HT will fit in the DA40. But Sky-Tec would be happy to work with an interested owner or shop to find out. Note that Sky-Tec will accept *any* model core in exchange for a refurbished starter (e.g., refurbished HT or XLT in exchange for an LS core). So the only risk for experimenting with the HT would be extra shipping costs and potential delays.

Assuming the HT physically fits, this would probably be the best choice for DA40s in club or flight school environments. Or owners looking for help with aft W&B issues.
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Re: Sky-Tec starters

Post by BRS »

Nice write-up on starters. Thanks.

We used the inline NL starter for the supercharger installation as we needed the extra side clearance. I believe it was some fuel lines to the servo that get in the way but that was an easy change. I've the original starter (less than 300 hours) sitting on the shelf. Probably should list-it as I doubt I'll be using it.
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mardav99
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Re: Sky-Tec starters

Post by mardav99 »

Thanks for this write-up. We experienced the same in our 2013 DA40 XLT, after roughly 400 hours, a few weeks ago traveling to Sun-n-fun from New York. The issue had happened once before in an isolated instance but was impossible to recreate and didn't then reoccur for some time. I wish I had searched the forum then! It then started happening a few more times in a shorter time period and seemed to be related to hot starts (which now after understanding the issue may be a false assumption or perhaps the heat actually made it worse). The "clicking" sound and no prop movement is exactly what we observed.
The temporary "fix" was a combination of turning the prop, moving the plane, trying the ignition several times etc. What actually made it work is hard to say and seemed to differ from time to time.

We contacted Sky Tec and they offered us a replacement starter with the improved design and since then everything has worked fine
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Re: Sky-Tec starters

Post by N503TS »

I have an overhauled Sky-Tec starter from My DA40 (just sold) that was a spare. If anyone is interested in it please PM me.
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theRDWRER
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Re: Sky-Tec starters

Post by theRDWRER »

First, thanks to the posters above for the helpful information in this thread.

I'm in the market for a starter and based on the information above I was expecting to pay more for the XLT than the LS. Was surprised to see that the XLT was $25 cheaper. Anyone know why this is? Is there a downside to the XLT I'm not seeing?
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Re: Sky-Tec starters

Post by dselder1962 »

Having just made the transition across from Cirrus to a 42 (which is now rolling off the production line and nearly starting its ferry flight) I was well versed with SkyTec starters and hot starts (or not...maybe I should say hot do nothings...)
In the 22T I upgraded to the Energiser starter and WOW what a difference. Start within one blade turn and even on the ground in 40degrees C, starting was not an issue.
Not sure if they are available for the Diamond but thought it may be worth inquiring for you.
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Chris B
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Re: Sky-Tec starters

Post by Chris B »

theRDWRER wrote:Is there a downside to the XLT I'm not seeing?
I have no inside information. But if Sky-Tec is selling more XLTs than LS models, the XLT may now simply be less expensive to produce and/or support.

Chris
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Re: Sky-Tec starters

Post by Rich »

Looks like it's my turn to replace the starter. New non-behavior today: Hit starter. Teeth engaged, prop moved about 10 degrees and stopped, starter motor spun without turning the prop further. Prop turns by hand normally.

Subsequent tests are similar, teeth engage but the motor never engages the pinion gear, so no prop movement at all. Again, prop turns normally by hand. Methinks this is a shear pin that let go for some reason. This is the original starter from 2002, 1600-ish hours ago. It has suffered some abuse in the past from time to time.

I'll probably do the LS-XLT upgrade. Will contact Sky-Tec tomorrow for pricing. Aircraft Spruce shows the XLT at about 1/2 AMU but I believe they don't have any in stock. A couple more pounds shaved off of empty weight in front where it's a good thing :D
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Re: Sky-Tec starters

Post by Chris B »

The Sky-Tec LS replacement that triggered this thread started making odd noises after racking up ~1500 hours. We installed an XLT which works great, although the replacement came with the crappy nickel plated lock washers. Having previously had these come loose, they were replaced with standard cad-plated lock washers and blue Loctite.

FYI, one other material change from the LS is that the XLT does not have the drilled ignition timing mark. This means that you have to use the top engine centerline for timing, and transfer the appropriate mark(s) from the rear of the flywheel to the front. This is not a big deal (and may be more accurate), but is different than the AMM.

When diagnosing the odd starter sounds, we noticed that the ring gear is noticeably worn in two locations (180 deg apart). This is due to the engine almost always stopping at one of two positions, and may have been aggravated when the starter got a little loose. It probably won't matter, but I have started rotating the prop ~90 degrees after shutting down to even-out the wear - and help my OCD. :oops:

Chris
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Re: Sky-Tec starters

Post by Rich »

It's interesting that the bolts that hold the starter on are not safety-wired types. It looks like these would be feasible to use.
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