Recently ordered a DA40NG !

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krellis
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Re: Recently ordered a DA40NG !

Post by krellis »

You may lose FADEC but you also lose an engine with questionable reliability, a lot of extra weight and a whole bunch of potentially expensive MSB’s. In return you get an old technology engine that is virtually bulletproof, burns more of a more expensive fuel, isn’t as smooth - but can be worked on by any A&P almost anywhere.

Also in my opinion- the DA40-180 is a much nicer looking airplane.
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Re: Recently ordered a DA40NG !

Post by RookieFlyer »

krellis wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:07 am You may lose FADEC but you also lose an engine with questionable reliability, a lot of extra weight and a whole bunch of potentially expensive MSB’s. In return you get an old technology engine that is virtually bulletproof, burns more of a more expensive fuel, isn’t as smooth - but can be worked on by any A&P almost anywhere.

Also in my opinion- the DA40-180 is a much nicer looking airplane.
I can't help wondering about the future cost of Avgas, or more specifically lead-free Avgas. In the not-to-distant future, no doubt the pollies are going to outlaw the sale of existing leaded Avgas formulations, and the certified replacement(s) are going to be considerably more expensive, not by a small margin, but by at least 60%.

The Austro engine design, for all its progressively unveiled vulnerabilities and weaknesses, is still being developed and refined to improve reliability and longevity. Diamond has all their eggs in this one engine basket, and I believe the future for the diesel Diamond's is *much* brighter than past failures and the recent piston clearance debacle would suggest. Modern CAD engineering combined with materials stress analysis and the latest CNC production techniques means Austro has available sophisticated tools that've come a *long* way since the days when MB designed and developed the original OM640.
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chili4way
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Re: Recently ordered a DA40NG !

Post by chili4way »

whole bunch of potentially expensive MSB’s
New airplanes and engines have these addressed. Future risk is future risk. See Continental.
virtually bulletproof
If you operate it correctly, service it correctly, lean it correctly, don't shock cool it, i.e., keep the CHTs under control at all times. If you don't, it's not the bulletproof engine's fault; you just screwed up as an owner/pilot.

[And check the exhaust system if you ever get a backfire to ensure you don't have an increased CO risk.]
can be worked on by any A&P almost anywhere
The varying degrees of competency and honesty keep Mike Busch and Savvy Aviation in business. Mike employs many more consultants for Lycoming and Continental engines than Austro/Thielert.

Trade-offs are everywhere in aviation. Pick your risk(s) and manage/mitigate it(them).
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Re: Recently ordered a DA40NG !

Post by CFIDave »

(Maybe moderators should move this Lycoming vs. DA40NG discussion to a separate thread, since it's strayed from DA40NG ordering and deliveries...)

I owned a Lycoming DA40 for 4 years, now dry lease shared access to a DA40NG, and have provided considerable flight instruction in both models.

Do you want to fly behind a sewing machine (NG) or a cement mixer (Lycoming)? :D

There's no question that the NG with its smaller, smoother, quieter engine is less fatiguing. It starts easier, is more economical with fuel, and has much simpler engine/prop operation for the pilot. But the FADEC Austro turbo-diesel is far more complex to maintain, is harder to service, and is still beset with maintenance and reliability issues. And there still aren't that many A&Ps/techs who know how to work on Austro engines.

IMHO, the Lycoming DA40 is actually more fun to fly: On takeoff it almost "levitates" off the runway like riding an elevator, rather than the NG that requires the pilot to apply stick back-pressure (just like the Diamond twins or heavier planes) and pitch up. The Lycoming climbs much better at lower altitudes below 5000 feet (1000 fpm vs. 700 fpm). You don't have to climb as high for x-country flights in the Lycoming -- which cruises best around 7000 feet rather than the NG that requires a climb all the way to 10-12,000 feet in order to cruise as fast. And because the Lycoming is not as nose-heavy as the NG (with its heavy cast-iron diesel engine), the Lycoming DA40 has lower stall and landing speeds, and just feels lighter and more maneuverable. If I lost an engine, I'd rather dead-stick land a Lycoming DA40.

In a few years when I'm too old to remain insured on our Epic turboprop, I'm probably going back to owning a Lycoming DA40.

(P.S.: What might change my preference would be if I lived in the western US. For flying in the mountains or if based at higher elevations, the turbocharged DA40NG would be more practical.)
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