COVID intervened ... this said, I was flying up and down California this weekend and thinking it was time to restart the effort. Stay tuned.arksat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:32 pmPeter, were you able to figure this out? I'm curious.pietromarx wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:44 am My airplane (G1000, 345R, TAS-600, GFC-700) is going in for its annual in late February and I'm going to see if I can't replace some of the standby units (airspeed indicator, attitude indicator or altimeter) with one or two of these units. I'll report back.
The New Garmin GI 275 Attitude Indicator (AI/ADI)
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- pietromarx
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
- First Name: Peter
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: NZZZ
- Airports: KWHP
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 157 times
Re: The New Garmin GI 275 Attitude Indicator (AI/ADI)
- Tim H
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 453
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:44 pm
- First Name: Tim
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N233MA
- Airports: KMGY
- Been thanked: 34 times
Re: The New Garmin GI 275 Attitude Indicator (AI/ADI)
I have a non-WAAS G1000 KAP-140 and I spoke with Garmin about replacing my AI and TC with the GI 275 AI with autopilot input.
They said the KAP 140 is integrated with the G1000 system and installing a AP version of the GI 275 will not work. I explained that the G1000 provides course deviation and the TC provide the rate information to the KAP 140. I asked if I could use the rate information from the GI 275 to drive the KAP 140 and continue to use the G1000 to provide course deviation and they said no. I feel like they gave a quick "no" without fully thinking it through.
I don't think there is any communication from the G1000 and the TC. Can't I just replace the source of the TC information? Am I missing something here?
They said the KAP 140 is integrated with the G1000 system and installing a AP version of the GI 275 will not work. I explained that the G1000 provides course deviation and the TC provide the rate information to the KAP 140. I asked if I could use the rate information from the GI 275 to drive the KAP 140 and continue to use the G1000 to provide course deviation and they said no. I feel like they gave a quick "no" without fully thinking it through.
I don't think there is any communication from the G1000 and the TC. Can't I just replace the source of the TC information? Am I missing something here?
- Tim H
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 453
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:44 pm
- First Name: Tim
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N233MA
- Airports: KMGY
- Been thanked: 34 times
Re: The New Garmin GI 275 Attitude Indicator (AI/ADI)
So I did a little further research and according the the DA40 AMM Dwg DA4-9222-10-03 Connector J3492, the only inputs from the TC to the KAP140 are roll rate +, roll rate - and rate valid which match up with the KAP140 installation guide showing those inputs for pins 3, 21 and 10.
So...if the GI 275 can provide those same outputs it should work? I looked for the GI 275 installation guide online but no luck.
So...if the GI 275 can provide those same outputs it should work? I looked for the GI 275 installation guide online but no luck.
- blsewardjr
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 486
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:19 pm
- First Name: Bernie
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N377DS
- Airports: KCHO
- Has thanked: 120 times
- Been thanked: 146 times
Re: The New Garmin GI 275 Attitude Indicator (AI/ADI)
Unfortunately, autopilots that use turn coordinators (e.g., KAP 140) and those that use attitude indicators (all other BK autopilots) use fundamentally different means for directional control as noted in this article -- https://midwestflyer.com/?p=2954#:~:tex ... d%20system.
Therefore, the GI275 attitude indicator can't drive the KAP140.An attitude indicator in an autopilot-equipped airplane has two pickup coils, one to sense the bank angle and the other senses the pitch angle. There is also a third pickup coil in the heading indicator or HSI, attached to the heading bug that is used to drive the autopilot’s heading-hold function.... The rate-based system, though not as smooth... as the attitude-based system, obtains its flight information from the turn coordinator and “accelerometers....” Rate- based systems, using turn rate rather than bank angle, form the attitude indicator that will cause the aircraft to turn at the same rate regardless of aircraft speed.
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4608
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1187 times
Re: The New Garmin GI 275 Attitude Indicator (AI/ADI)
So far, I've found this to be universally true for all these new gizmos, including AV-30, G5, ad infinitum. Only a spinning-iron-gyro device will provide the required output.blsewardjr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:36 pm Therefore, the GI275 attitude indicator can't drive the KAP140.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- Tim H
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 453
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:44 pm
- First Name: Tim
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N233MA
- Airports: KMGY
- Been thanked: 34 times
Re: The New Garmin GI 275 Attitude Indicator (AI/ADI)
This webinar provides a good overview of the GI 275:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdA9_5ODACY&t=2062s
To skip ahead, at 32:56-35:50 it talks about compatibility with legacy autopilot systems, including the KAP140. That's what got me thinking I could replace my TC.
But, but I think (in the case of the KAP140) only the HSI function is compatible, not the TC. If you have a KAP140 (in any application) you will need to keep your gyroscopic TC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdA9_5ODACY&t=2062s
To skip ahead, at 32:56-35:50 it talks about compatibility with legacy autopilot systems, including the KAP140. That's what got me thinking I could replace my TC.
But, but I think (in the case of the KAP140) only the HSI function is compatible, not the TC. If you have a KAP140 (in any application) you will need to keep your gyroscopic TC.
- Barry
- 2 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:41 am
- First Name: Barry
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N984ES
- Airports: KEIK
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 28 times
Re: The New Garmin GI 275 Attitude Indicator (AI/ADI)
Wouldn't it be nice if the WAAS supplied by the 345R through this GI275 could provide a solution for non-WAAS DA40's with the Garmin GFC-700 autopilot?
Barry Starkman
Commercial Instrument
DA40 N984ES 40.827
KEIK - Erie, CO
Commercial Instrument
DA40 N984ES 40.827
KEIK - Erie, CO
- pietromarx
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
- First Name: Peter
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: NZZZ
- Airports: KWHP
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 157 times
Re: The New Garmin GI 275 Attitude Indicator (AI/ADI)
That's an interesting thought. You would basically remove the controls from the G1000 and use the GI-275 as the autopilot controller. It would have the (weird?) effect of making the G1000 into the accessory of the GI-275. I'm not sure you'd even have to turn it on except for the minimum equipment list (MEL) for IFR/VFR.