Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

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ememic99
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 »

But we’re talking here mainly about GFC700 which is certified for all three airframes (DA40, DA42 and DA62) for practically all engine options, so no certification cost is involved. And if the parts cost (retail price) $30-40k, where $85k price comes from?
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TimS »

ememic99 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:49 pm
But we’re talking here mainly about GFC700 which is certified for all three airframes (DA40, DA42 and DA62) for practically all engine options, so no certification cost is involved. And if the parts cost (retail price) $30-40k, where $85k price comes from?
How is the GFC700 certified? I do not know the details, but I know on Beech that the order of STC's matter. And if you do the wingtip fuel tanks you cannot do TKS after.... Same for some TN options.
I do not know for Diamond, but I know early Cirrus models do not have access to the servos mounting plates. You end up with fiberglass work and painting to install new mounting plates.
I would not be surprised Diamond is the same.
Also, do they servos mount in the same locations....

There are many variables. All of which cost time/money to resolve. Combined with a limited volume to spread these costs against and you have a high price.

Tim
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Colin »

Yes, there is major work installing the new servos. I remember asking that when I dropped my plane at the factory for the upgrade.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~2,600hrs
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N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

Assuming roughly 50% of the cost associated with upgrading from the KAP-140 to the GFC700 is labor*, then aren’t there plenty of talented avionics shops who are well qualified to perform this work and at a somewhat lower cost?

I believe there are and that the cost to upgrade could be more reasonably priced at around $60,000. Then to add out of production WAAS boxes, owners are still looking at a staggering $85,000 tab – and the aircraft is still legacy equipped. Currently Diamond is quoting this work at an even $100,000, with a $5,000 “discount” for combining the two upgrades.

With a situation that has become this crazy, why wouldn’t Diamond come out with a statement saying something along the lines of:

“we’ve become very concerned with the runaway costs owners are facing with the associated costs of upgrading our legacy G1000 aircraft to NXi. Therefore, Diamond Aircraft has actively started pursuing cost effective, non-G1000, solutions for our legacy G1000 customers. This may involve Garmin or non-Garmin solutions. Perhaps even a combination of both.

Regardless, we realize the importance of getting all of our early model aircraft on the AML list and are firmly committed to finding a solution(s) by the year 202x.”

Just a suggestion that might go over well with owners and in the media. While also setting a positive, price sensitive precedence for prospective buyers that Diamond will be there for them - long after their purchase.

*According to Ed, I believe he told me, it takes Diamond approximately 300 hours of labor to complete an A/P upgrade.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 »

STC-wise DA42 airframe both with CD and AE engines is certified with GFC700 (FAA and EASA), so regardless differences in details between particular aircrafts, no additional paperwork has to be done and consequently no cost to be shared on any number of aircraft. The only costs are parts and labor.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

The only costs are parts and labor.
Yes, indeed Emir, but if "only" the parts and labor weren't gold plated.

It sure seems the KAP140 has turned into the Achilles heel of the fleet installed with these A/P’s, as Diamond is signaling they're limiting variables* with the NXi. Yet KAP140 owners are going to be forced to pay a king's ransom when the day comes when we’ll be left with two completely unacceptable choices. Which are:

• shell out a ludicrous amount to become NXi and GFC700 equipped, that one could never even remotely justify spending (given current hull values) and most can’t afford anyway

or

• ground a perfectly fine aircraft and part it out for a fraction of its actual value

Patting owners on the head by saying the legacy G1000 will likely be supported for another seven to ten years is of little comfort.

So, does anyone have inside information that either Diamond or Garmin are putting effort into lobbying the FAA to reduce the high costs associated with new software releases?

Unfortunately, some 8 months later, AOPA has failed to do anything of value on this front. It wasn’t for lack of effort on our part and after a long stretch of them indicating a wiliness to help. And while AOPA proudly publicizes their well-deserved accomplishments of reducing avionics costs and increasing safety features for AML aircraft, they appear to have completely dropped the ball in lending their considerable clout to help solve the thorny OEM problem. A problem that is so clearly a major liability for all G1000 equipped aircraft.

*this is understandable to a point, as TimS and CFIDave have previously written. Yet what actions is DAI taking to help mitigate the OEM disadvantages? Other than inaction, by ignoring the problem doesn’t exist.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Vasco »

Hello. Sorry for the stupid question.
Why do I read "ground the aircraft?"
If a KAP140/non-WAAS aircraft owner decides not to pay a fortune to upgrade to WAAS, can't he fly non-WAAS using the LNAV minima only?
Why are we discussing about being grounded? Is it because the Legacy G1000 will not be supported anymore in few years?
Thanks!!
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 »

We don’t know whether legacy G1000 will be supported or not in few years but I’m pretty sure that spare parts will be harder to find as time passes by. Also, knowing Bendix King decline, I’m not sure what will happen with availability of KAP140 reparations/spare parts.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Tommy »

You guys worry to much. Fly your airplanes or sell them and forget about it. Your not going to get the support you so stridently hope for.
It’s never been there and never will be. For whatever reason some just can’t see the forest from the trees.
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ememic99
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 »

You’re probably right but obviously we like to believe we can change something :)

Whenever I post (and think) too much, you can easily conclude that the weather is not good and I can’t go flying :)
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