Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

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hkavasch
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by hkavasch »

Hi Phil,

I am also not expecting a solution within the next months.. today our birds still fly ok.. But it is obvious that having no access to LNAV GPS approaches and newer G1000 software will dramatically limit the usage of our planes in the years to come. The life time of planes often ranges from 30-50 years.. or even beyond... The affected Diamond planes are today 10-14 years old.. some even younger. It is not acceptable that their use is strongly limited in a few years from now... not having access to newer software is like Diamond stopping to sell spartparts in a few years.
I am expecting Diamond and Garmin to work out a solution that keeps our planes flying. certainly something where owners will not get a free lunch.. but something that owners simply can not fix by themselves.
If this is not addressed... how could you trust Diamond to support a brand new 850K USD $ DA42 in 2029...
Hans Kavasch
Flying Club MDG (http://www.edmq.de), Germany
DA40TDI 2.0s CD155, G1000, D4.325, D-EDKY
DA42 2.0 CD135, 42.059, D-GDON
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cptndavid
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by cptndavid »

I had to wait 4 months for a gear bushing to be manufactured for my 2007 DA 42.
When I needed parts for my 1964 Baron I had
The part within 4 days.
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Flyboyamin
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Flyboyamin »

cptndavid wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:15 pm
I had to wait 4 months for a gear bushing to be manufactured for my 2007 DA 42.
When I needed parts for my 1964 Baron I had
The part within 4 days.
I have to wait 5 months to get a fuel level sensor for my left tank. I dont know why the spare parts take so long time to get through Diamond. I even spoke with my local flying school and they have bought an additional DA42 for their operation to use it as backup for parts :scream: :scream:
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

Have added the following aircraft to the G1000 petition:

N556LU - Hans / Oriens Flight, LLC
&
D-ERDS (formerly N810DS) Torkell / Propellfly A/S

Also, James (N730DS) requested the list be updated, as he not only added a GTX-345R transponder to his aircraft but is also now WAAS equipped. Congratulations to him.

Thanks to these owners for contacting me and the list now stands at 162 aircraft.

As we await further details and clarification from DAI (see “The G1000 project - the next step”) it might be helpful if we, as DAN members, track not only the legacy Non-WAAS to WAAS upgrades, but equally important, the NXi Phase I owners who have elected to upgrade to Phase II hardware. At current pricing levels for these upgrades, this shouldn’t involve much data entry work on my part. Yet if the costs should ever become more attractive and the upgrades become popular, I might need some help from one or two volunteers.

Finally, here are some equipment totals by category (assuming I did the math correctly, here late at night). Which might possibly be referenced in future discussions with management.

TOTALs by CATEGORY
KAP140 73 45%
GFC700 51 31%
Unknown 38 23%
Subtotal 162 100%

NonWAAS 79 49%
WAAS (63W) 49 30%
Unknown 34 21%
Subtotal 162 100%
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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cavumac
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by cavumac »

Add me to your Petition please. N127US, 2008 DA42 2.0 KAP140. Yes, they wooed me lovingly as a prospect, but now I feel as valued as last months newspaper. I would appreciate improved DAI support Including not only what is in your petition but also inventory of parts in America with returns to Continental. Thank you for your initiative. Cavumac
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

Your TwinStar has been entered Mac. Also, recently we heard from Paris, France, as Christian signed up his DA42 too. Thanks to these two owner/pilots! Total aircraft now stands at 164.

On a side note, both Twinstar’s have KAP140 A/P's, as does mine. This brings the "official" number of KAP140 equipped aircraft to 75. However, with 38 aircraft omitting their A/P type, this number alone could likely be a 100 or more aircraft. And that's just on the petition list, the actual number of KAP140's in the fleet must be far greater - probably in the hundreds.

We do know from Garmin, the NXi can be re-engineered to interface with this A/P. Which could also mean the new BendixKing AeroCruze 230*, that conveniently uses the same servos as the KAP140. The clear advantage to owners is this upgrade would only cost a small fraction of the $85,000 to retrofit to the GFC700.

Yet given Diamonds September 17th announcement, which only indirectly addresses this point, it seems almost certain they're only interested in supporting one A/P with the NXi.

Beyond a doubt, KAP140 owners badly need a cost effective solution to this looming problem and it would be great to know Diamond is genuinely concerned and earnestly working on a solution that will keep this segment of their fleet airworthy - well beyond the demise of the legacy G1000 system and short of investing a small fortune into a GFC700 (only).

*it also includes a yaw damper option:
https://www.bendixking.com/en/products/aerocruze-230
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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ememic99
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 »

TwinStarScott wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:58 am
Which could also mean the new BendixKing AeroCruze 230*, that conveniently uses the same servos as the KAP140.
I’m not sure it replaces KAP140 - it’s replacement for older KFC150 which means interfaces to avionics are different regardless possible usage of same servos. Plus, certifying new autopilot is pretty demanding job. In other words, I wouldn’t count on this as an option. I believe it’s more productive to concentrate our efforts to lower Diamond pricing to normal level, reflecting real cost of parts rather than tripled margin and to enable other certified shops to perform the upgrades.
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

Yes, you’re right Emir – budgetary concerns aside, the GFC700 is ideally the way to go - if ONLY it was offered at a price most KAP140 / Diamond owners could afford.

What about a GFC500 or GFC600 option for the NXi? Of course, this would like almost certainly require the servos to be replaced, with the associated high labor costs.

As for a BendixKing longshot option, somewhere I had read the 230 was a replacement for not only the KFC150, but also the KAP140 & 150 as well. Now I can’t find it. After some further research tonight, here’s what BendixKing is currently advertising:

“the AeroCruze 100 makes for a perfect upgrade for KAP 140 users.”

And as we all know, replacement parts for the KAP140 are becoming increasing difficult to source and will in short order become completely unserviceable.
enable other certified shops to perform the upgrades.
Short of opening the upgrade work to the entire Garmin network, why couldn’t Diamond at least appoint a few shops at key, distant locations? Allowing owners living far afield convenient access, while also avoiding long waits and bottlenecks at the factory. For instance, one shop in California performed a NXi Phase I to Phase II upgrade last summer. Certainly, shops like this, and presumably many others, are already trained and perfectly competent to upgrade non-WAAS aircraft to WAAS. If not handle more complicated upgrades too.

The need for field retrofit work would become even more important if upgrades are priced fairly.

The overarching point here is owners need to hear some good news from Diamond and that they finally have our backs, even if it’s a little painful for them in the short term. Because in the long run, their doomed if they can’t shake their history and image of tardy to nearly non-existent software support, eventually followed years later by outrageously priced hardware upgrades, coupled with factory only retrofit work.

All one must do is look at the problems already emerging for the NXi owners, which by enlarge, appear to be unique to Diamond. Problems which DAI should be able to solve to the owner’s satisfaction, even if it means ruffling some feathers at Garmin.
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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ememic99
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 »

I completely agree with you, I’ll just add few comments.
TwinStarScott wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:20 am
What about a GFC500 or GFC600 option for the NXi? Of course, this would like almost certainly require the servos to be replaced, with the associated high labor costs.
Unfortunately, Garmin explicitly states GFC600 won’t be certified for G1000 equipped aircrafts. I’m not sure about GFC500 but I don’t think it’s a perfect match for DA42 although I guess it’s better than KAP140.
“the AeroCruze 100 makes for a perfect upgrade for KAP 140 users.”
It might be true or just kind of marketing announcement but I’m note sure Bendix King is a company with future at least in this area. They are on steady decline for 15 years with new development at almost zero level.
Short of opening the upgrade work to the entire Garmin network, why couldn’t Diamond at least appoint a few shops at key, distant locations? Allowing owners living far afield convenient access, while also avoiding long waits and bottlenecks at the factory. For instance, one shop in California performed a NXi Phase I to Phase II upgrade last summer. Certainly, shops like this, and presumably many others, are already trained and perfectly competent to upgrade non-WAAS aircraft to WAAS. If not handle more complicated upgrades too.

The need for field retrofit work would become even more important if upgrades are priced fairly.
My shop performs retrofits of practically all Garmin range of products (except G1000) for several aircraft types: G500, G600, TXi, GFC500, GFC600. I believe they are completely competent for performing G1000 NXi and GFC700 upgrade with appropriate training and documentation.
Because in the long run, their doomed if they can’t shake their history and image of tardy to nearly non-existent software support, eventually followed years later by outrageously priced hardware upgrades, coupled with factory only retrofit work.
It’s a long way ahead of DAI to change this perception because it’s not only based on history but on the fact that they still haven’t changed their attitude and mindset and they keep on repeating the mistakes. However, they have good products that make their owners happy, at least in the beginning.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TimS »

ememic99 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:46 am
Plus, certifying new autopilot is pretty demanding job. In other words, I wouldn’t count on this as an option. I believe it’s more productive to concentrate our efforts to lower Diamond pricing to normal level, reflecting real cost of parts rather than tripled margin and to enable other certified shops to perform the upgrades.
The problem is volume. The first part highlighted is in conflict with the second part.
Do not be surprised if Diamond really only offers one path forward which minimizes variables in certification. And the price to get there is hefty.

Tim
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