Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Any DA62 related topics

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iceathlete
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Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by iceathlete » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:28 am

Looking at a purchase of a da62 in the next couple years. Possible a single engine diamond before hand to re-familiarize myself with flying.
I moved to SLC several years ago to pursue Olympic aspirations and while I've been a pilot since 2001, my flight time in the last decade has been very very limited.

I currently reside in Salt lake City and my mission profile will be VERY specific.
To fly from around Bountiful Skypark to jefferson city, mo. Where I am originally from.
923nm is the distance between airports.
Would the 62 be a good airplane that could make this trip, but more importantly make the trip back west without a stop?
What kind of real world speed do you see at max ceiling? Where is this aircraft fastest?
Thank you for your input and advice.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by dgger » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:12 pm

iceathlete wrote: Would the 62 be a good airplane that could make this trip, but more importantly make the trip back west without a stop?
What kind of real world speed do you see at max ceiling? Where is this aircraft fastest?
Diamond has most of their technical publications - including AFMs - available online, so you can do the math yourself and run a couple of scenarios. For the DA62 you find the AFM here: http://support.diamond-air.at/da62_afm_ ... 73ab0.html

While I have no hands on experience with the DA62 the numbers in the AFM for the DA42 are very accurate.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Colin » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:49 pm

Hello Ryan,

As Peter points out, some of the calculations are simply math that you can do from the AFM. I'll address the question that is less mathematical and an underlying one that might be keeping people from answering.

You are describing a rather mission-critical flight (returning home, critical athletic training schedules) through some of the least forgiving terrain in the country. As a pilot you are probably aware that there are times the Rockies produce mountain wave action that affect passenger jets so are there times that the DA62 will not be able to make a westbound flight in a single hop? Yes. There are probably quite a few times in the fall and winter that I would not make a westbound flight from Denver to KHIF at all. The tough thing there is that my respect for the Rockies keeps me from crossing them except in the early morning, so I launch out of Santa Monica at 7am or westbound I spend the night in Denver unless the weather has burnt itself out and winds are 16kts on the surface.

75% power looks like it gives you the range you want. The crazy thing about the DA62 is that you can fly it at 50% power, boosting the range and stretching your time in the sky. But that's a no-wind range so I certainly wouldn't use it for flight planning purposes. A fuel stop is not a huge deal in my DA42, and I don't know why it would be in a DA62.

When you say that you haven't flown much in the last decade, how many hours and what ratings do you have? Again, you are talking about mountain flying, possibly adverse weather, and a very capable FIKI aircraft. But I wouldn't have wanted to do that sort of mission in my first five hundred hours of flying.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Antoine » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:59 am

As Colin said, it would be prudent to take one step at a time, but I wonder why you picked the 62 as the ultimate solution for this mission? In my opinion, a turbo prop (single or twin) would be better suited.
5-10'000 ft of additional altitude potential thanks to the pressurized cabin are a significant factor for dispatch rate under the circumstances, and I understand that this is quite important to you?

I am not implying the 62 is not good, just that it would not be my first choice over high terrain because it is not pressurized. And given the length of your legs an extra 70 knots or so won't hurt...
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by CFIDave » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:08 pm

With the range you're looking for, in a no-wind situation with IFR one-hour reserve, you'd probably need to cruise at about 60% power, at altitudes 12,000 feet or higher. But that's a long time (about 6 hours) to sit in the plane. And you might not make it non-stop westbound with winter headwinds. Instead, plan on 1 fuel stop so you can cruise at a faster 75-95% power.

If you can afford the fuel and maintenance costs, something like a used TBM 850 might be a better match for this mission.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by TimS » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:03 pm

The Piper PA-46 line would be the low cost turbine way to pull of the trip.
If you go used, an older Meridian would likely need a stop west bound (range is roughly 1000nm miles).
If you go new, and get the M600, you are looking at a range of 1600nm, this should handle the non-stop west bound at 260+ KTAS pretty well.

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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Don » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:05 pm

After reading this thread I am shaking my head. One of the biggest errors that pilots can make is fuel exhaustion from trying to stretch their range. According to the NTSB, it happens quite regularly. I can think of two pilot acquaintances I knew at my airport that lost their lives returning to KTOA and ran out of fuel. One was on a one mile final, a C210, which I happened to be following behind him in my DA40 at the time and witnessed him crash into a house. The other, a Piper Cherokee, plus his two passengers ran out of fuel about 30 miles short of the airport on a trip back from Mexico. They went down at night in the back bay of Newport Beach, plane flipped over in four feet of water and all three drowned. That said, I am now sensitive on this subject and like to keep a one hour reserve on board. Just saying.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Colin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:46 pm

I agree with you, Don. In my DA40 I never took off with less than full tanks, although they were just the 40 gallon ones. I have never flown into my hour reserve. My wife has pointedly asked why we could a couple times (particularly one summer when we were probably going to be ten minutes into it to land at Elmira, but the tailwind picked up so we didn't need to discuss it any further).

The twin Cessna that just crashed on the way to John Wayne had no fire at all. I wonder if we'll find out that the tanks were dry. If so, they flew over the cheapest JetA in the basin on their way to their deaths (Ross at KLGB). With today's technology the continuing number of fuel incidents continues to surprise me.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by iceathlete » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:22 am

Thank you to all for the reply's.
I'll start answering some questions.
TT is a little under 200hrs( i know i know, don't burn me at the stake yet), the majority of which were acquired prior to my move to SLC.
Started instrument but didn't finish due to going after the Games.
I haven't decided on the 62 yet and I know there are many options to consider that could be better.
But define better?
Why would I consider the 62? Low fuel burn, low mile/cost, redundancy with the twins and because of guys like you that rave about Diamond.
Im a good pilot. Im an inexperienced pilot but I am good on the stick and I don't take chances. I'm very safe and fly within my limits. That's why I'm asking you guys for your opinions.
I won't start flying across the Rockies before I have several hundred more hours, am IFR rated and have extensive time in IMC conditions. If I were to take longer trips like this in the next few years it would be with the addition of a more experienced pilot on board as well.
I spent the last 8 years racing bobsleds and pulling 5 g's on ice, I've met my quota for thrills and taking risks for awhile.
I just want to start logging hours again so I can share my love of flying with my new wife and child!

I've considered all the planes you guys have mentioned and many more
t210, 310, sr22, ttx, malibu, 414, Pretty much anything over 200kn that I can keep at an operating cost of under $500/hr
. I have a good friend who has been at Osh the last 2 years and is about my size; we're big boys. No way would I be comfortable in an older Meridian, the new one however he said was much more comfortable. But out of my price range.
However a Jetprop I have considered. I would honestly have to sit in one first to see if its a comfortable aircraft and big enough for me.
Eventually a TBM or a twin TP of the same operating class could be attainable but that's still several years away.

I was broke 4 years ago, because OLY athletes and hopefuls do not get paid and live on very little money.
I've done well in real estate in the last few years and have great prospects looking forward, hence the airplane shopping. My thinking is this. Do I buy a cheap IFR platform airplane in the next 12 months for $50,000-$250,000, so I can get my time in and start flying again, or do I just wait another 2 years and buy a TP or twin for $600,000-1.5m?
Thank you for taking the time to read this and I look forward to your responses.
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Re: Please advise on a da62 purchase.

Post by Don » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:24 pm

Colin wrote:I agree with you, Don. In my DA40 I never took off with less than full tanks, although they were just the 40 gallon ones. I have never flown into my hour reserve. My wife has pointedly asked why we could a couple times (particularly one summer when we were probably going to be ten minutes into it to land at Elmira, but the tailwind picked up so we didn't need to discuss it any further).

The twin Cessna that just crashed on the way to John Wayne had no fire at all. I wonder if we'll find out that the tanks were dry. If so, they flew over the cheapest JetA in the basin on their way to their deaths (Ross at KLGB). With today's technology the continuing number of fuel incidents continues to surprise me.
Yep...I was thinking the same thing, fuel exhaustion, regarding the Cessna 414 that just went down on the down wind leg at John Wayne Airport. Watching the News video caught on a dash cam, the plane literally went nose straight down at a high rate of speed and there was no fire on impact. If that is the case, the PIC committed a crime by poor flight planning and taking five souls.
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video/3 ... dentified/
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