DA42 Purchase

Any DA42 related topics.

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neema
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by neema »

I won't give you an all in, inclusive cost, but can shed some light on Austro/DA42-VI ownership:

A few items outside of Continentals/Lycomings that are required:
-HPPs (high pressure fuel pumps): these are $2900 each (x2 needed) every 600 hours
-gearbox inspections: ~ 30 hours of time for ~$3000 at 600 hours
-wastegate actuators (to comply with an AD every 250 hours): $900 for both incl labor. Hopefully FAA approval for a permanent fix soon

Annuals are quoted at reasonable prices from shops fluent in Diamonds ($3300 for the inspection)

At the second annual/600 hours, we had to replace:
-one gearbox that was making metal (just shy of $10,000)
-both TVDs at $1850 each + labor
-a leaking prop governor at $5500 + labor


Also sprinkle in:
-one RH engine starter. $321 + 600 labor (including troubleshooting at an unfamiliar shop).
-Air conditioning alternator pooped on us. It has a Diamond specific part number and was ~$2000 to overhaul, but it's actually a Hartzell part with a cooling duct attached to it. Removed the duct, sent to get overhauled for $3-400. A/C now works no problem.

Luckily most of this was done under warranty, but I'm worried about a trend developing. We're closing out our third year of ownership and 900 hours on the airframe/engines. We won't be hitting TVDs and HPPs next annual, so this should be a much simpler annual. Just hope a gearbox isn't making metal.

Hope this helps paint the picture.
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neema
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by neema »

ememic99 wrote:
CFIDave wrote:3. I have found Austro engined DA42 NGs (and *all* Austro Diamonds) to be quieter, smoother, start more easily, and have lower maintenance costs (including overhaul/replacement) than those with Thielert 2.0/CD-135 engines that are mechanically very similar to CD-155 engines. I really liked flying the Austros in my previously-owned DA42-VI, and now my DA62.
Start more easily - yes, quieter - maybe, smoother - I’m not sure. Maybe cost per hour is lower after you do few overhauls/exchanges but I still haven’t seen AE300 overhaul price. If you have one, please share so we can compare 2100 hours TBR of CD-155 with 1800 hours TBO of AE300. BTW EASA certificate for CD-155 (and CD-135) allows overhaul as well (although I haven’t heard anyone did it).
To chime in here, I was quoted $26,500 per side for overhauling AE300s. I didn't dig into it for details on any options and to see if anything else was needed. Was mostly probing our shop to see how much to plan for
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ememic99
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by ememic99 »

Thanks, now we have one data - TBO vs TBR:
- 26.500 / 1800 = $14.72
- 54.000 / 2100 = $25.71

However, it would be nice to get data from someone who actually did it rather than getting quotation only.
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by TimS »

Here is a slightly dated analysis by a large Diamond shop:

http://www.greatlakesdiamond.com/hourly ... -for-da42/

Tim
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by Johnmyers »

neema wrote:I won't give you an all in, inclusive cost, but can shed some light on Austro/DA42-VI ownership:

A few items outside of Continentals/Lycomings that are required:
-HPPs (high pressure fuel pumps): these are $2900 each (x2 needed) every 600 hours
-gearbox inspections: ~ 30 hours of time for ~$3000 at 600 hours
-wastegate actuators (to comply with an AD every 250 hours): $900 for both incl labor. Hopefully FAA approval for a permanent fix soon

Annuals are quoted at reasonable prices from shops fluent in Diamonds ($3300 for the inspection)

At the second annual/600 hours, we had to replace:
-one gearbox that was making metal (just shy of $10,000)
-both TVDs at $1850 each + labor
-a leaking prop governor at $5500 + labor


Also sprinkle in:
-one RH engine starter. $321 + 600 labor (including troubleshooting at an unfamiliar shop).
-Air conditioning alternator pooped on us. It has a Diamond specific part number and was ~$2000 to overhaul, but it's actually a Hartzell part with a cooling duct attached to it. Removed the duct, sent to get overhauled for $3-400. A/C now works no problem.

Luckily most of this was done under warranty, but I'm worried about a trend developing. We're closing out our third year of ownership and 900 hours on the airframe/engines. We won't be hitting TVDs and HPPs next annual, so this should be a much simpler annual. Just hope a gearbox isn't making metal.

Hope this helps paint the picture.
Wow, a $20k annual. Didn't know that was a thing with Diamonds. Can anyone else chime in on how common that is? Starts to make a T310R look better.
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ememic99
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by ememic99 »

TimS wrote:Here is a slightly dated analysis by a large Diamond shop:

http://www.greatlakesdiamond.com/hourly ... -for-da42/

Tim
That's great reference. Assuming some $20.000 spent on last 600 hours (and 2-Mass Flywheel engines), we get:
- $72 for CD-135
- $78 for CD-155
- $48 for AE300

These numbers should probably be corrected for different small associated costs and usual rise of prices but I believe they are good for comparison. I ran through similar calculation (although not so detailed) and got similar numbers when I had to replace my old CD-135 engines. And the calculation showed that AE300 with its too high price of initial acquiring is hard to justify (at least for me flying 150 hours a year) comparing to CD-135 or CD-155 (which I chose at the end).
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by ememic99 »

I'd like to add one comment more to picture below.
NG-VI-and-TDi-CD155-Cruise-Speeds1.jpg

Although AE300 is able to run on max continuous power (92%) to higher altitudes than CD-155, due to stronger turbo and higher critical altitude, its maximum max continuous power (92% gives output of 155 HP or 114 kW) is equivalent to CD-155 max continuous power (100% gives 155 HP or 114 kW).

I don't have much data recorded at 100% (due to fact it's available to 8000 ft or so and I usually cruise at much higher altitudes), but I have three important ones (confirmed as average through several recordings):
- 176 KTAS at 8000 ft
- 178 KTAS at 9000 ft
- 180 KTAS at 10000 ft

Basically this shows practically same performance of DA42-VI and Crosby's conversion of DA42 up to the level where both engines (AE300 and CD-155) are able to deliver maximum continuous power. I would expect DA42-VI to achieve higher speeds due to it's advertised better aerodynamics.
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by CFIDave »

Back when I owned a DA42-VI, the "sweet spot" for performance was 75% power burning 13 gph total, producing 180 KTAS at 16,000 feet. I did this all the way across the US going westbound, and 17,000 feet eastbound. The plane could do 192-195 KTAS at these same altitudes with 92% MCP burning 16gph, but most of the time I chose a more relaxed 75% power setting on the Austros.
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ememic99
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by ememic99 »

CFIDave wrote:Back when I owned a DA42-VI, the "sweet spot" for performance was 75% power burning 13 gph total, producing 180 KTAS at 16,000 feet.
That’s exactly what I would expect from DA42-VI, to be a bit more efficient than my DA42 with CD-155 engines, due to better aerodynamics.
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Re: DA42 Purchase

Post by neema »

CFIDave wrote:Back when I owned a DA42-VI, the "sweet spot" for performance was 75% power burning 13 gph total, producing 180 KTAS at 16,000 feet. I did this all the way across the US going westbound, and 17,000 feet eastbound. The plane could do 192-195 KTAS at these same altitudes with 92% MCP burning 16gph, but most of the time I chose a more relaxed 75% power setting on the Austros.

The weird thing is that there is no incentive (maybe other than exceeding max coolant temp/high oil temps?) for keeping power lower. You could do 85% power and 185-190 ktas without a change in typical oil change mx costs. We fly at 75% just to be nice.
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