Garmin Flight Stream

Any DA42 related topics.

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TwinStarScott
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by TwinStarScott »

Two years ago this month my avionics shop legally installed a FS-210 at the same time as the GTX-345R. So it can be done in a TDI DA42 (non-WAAS), it just might take some FSDO hunting or maybe first ask your avionics shop to do some further investigating.

Please be aware, that a high percentage of Diamond's fleet hasn't keep pace with Service Bulletins (relating to avionics). And without these, avionics shops aren't allowed to upgrade your aircraft to the most current G1000 software. Which means that so many of us are locked out of the latest and greatest Garmin features, even with the most current hardware (a GTR-345R / FS-210). To name just one these is the ability to transfer flight plans from an iPad to the MFD (and vice versa).

So if you haven't already done so, please sign the G1000 petition (for both current software upgrades and an NXi option), here's the link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... KZo6Q/edit
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jasona
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by jasona »

What avionics shop installed the FS-210? I already have the GTX-345R.
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by TwinStarScott »

Hi Jason,

On Monday, I will plan on calling this avionics shop to get their permission to post their contact information. Your timing is good since I have several other items to run by them, and will also mention what you're trying to accomplish.

In the interim, would you please sign the G1000 outdated software petition by clicking on this link

Thanks,
Scott
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by TwinStarScott »

As planned, I spoke with Isaac at Aerotronics (406-259-5006) about the FS210 install. They're located in Billings, Montana (KBIL), which might not be the most convenient location for some or even most. Yet well worth the trip in my experience.

Case in point:

because if you already have a GTX-345R installed, to then go back after the fact to add a FS210 requires opening everything up again for the exact same cable run that was required for the initial transponder upgrade. Which, according to Isaac is about two days of labor. At least the hardware is relatively inexpensive, as the FS210 retails for just under a $1,000.

Isaac went on to say Aerotronics is about two months out with scheduling and yet perhaps could get an owner in sooner, if the stars align just right and the winter Wx cooperates.

It does however get to be a bit of a tough call for those with a GTX-345R currently installed – does one wait for the Nxi lurking around the corner or bite the labor bullet now. And should the NXi ever become reality for us legacy G1000 owners, then the wireless FS510 card* would clearly be the much better option.

For those who have yet to install a GTX-345R, my advice would be to:

1) let your shop know having Bluetooth connectivity is very important to you and the GTX-345R signal gets blocked in Diamonds by the rear bulkhead

2) insist on having the FS210 be included in the bid package. And if they refuse, then ask them to give Isaac a call for his advice. Otherwise, head on up (or over) to Montana at your nearest opportunity. You'll be glad you did as this shop really knows how to treat their customers exceptionally well.

* pending CFI Dave's comment in an earlier post (on this subject).
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by TwinStarScott »

UPDATE:
Since the above post, here's what I learned during a follow-up call I placed with Isaac the other day. It appears not all DA42 rear bulkheads are made out of the same material – which can impact bluetooth connectivity. Because when Aerotronics was installing a GTX-345R over two years ago (in a 2006 model, serial number AC.033), they noticed the bluetooth reception was, at best, intermittent with just the 345R. Aerotronics attributed this to the bulkhead being comprised of carbon fiber and thus largely blocking the signal into the cockpit – with an even greater signal loss with luggage being stowed in the rear baggage compartment.

However, it now appears at some point the rear bulkhead material was changed in the manufacturing process* and was switched to fiberglass – which apparently doesn't interfere nearly as much with bluetooth connectivity. HOWEVER, if your G1000 software level supports the flight transfer feature, you will STILL mostly likely need a FS210 to take advantage of this, as the GTX-345R won't suffice alone. At least this point, this is an educated guess. Although it could also be that DAI has altered the software in versions that support the flight transfer feature, by potentially not allowing older aircraft to make use of this slick feature. This, however, seems highly unlikely and hopefully is NOT the case. For the benefit of others and with the 2020 mandate looming - this technical conundrum needs to be ferreted out by any avionics shop prior to completing any more GTX-345R only installations – assuming the owner desires using the flight plan transfer feature (depending on MFD software available for the aircraft, now or in the future).

Regardless of bulkhead material, here is a bottom line recommendation to consider if you have yet to install a GTX-345R:

Well before everything is opened up for the 345R installation - ask that your shop to install a FS210 somewhere under the glareshield. The additional hardware expense of a FS210 is minimal, especially constrasted with the labor hours of having to go back after your plane has been buttoned up. And relying on a remotely located transponder for bluetooth connectivity may not be all that dependable. Certainly in my experience with a FS210 (installed up front) it allows for a 100% reliable bluetooth connection, with no concerns whatsoever of loading configuration. And to the best of my knowledge, Aerotronics is the first shop in the country to have legally installed a FS210 in a DA42.


* If anyone knows the precise time (serial number) when the bulkhead material was changed, it might be helpful for others to have this information documented on this thread. So would imagine any serial number lower than 033, will experience the same signal blocking qualities as mine did. So at what point this changed is the question? And I bet someone on this forum has the precise answer!
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by Antoine »

"And to the best of my knowledge, Aerotronics is the first shop in the country to have legally installed a FS210 in a DA42."
Am I right guessing that this has required a form 337? If this is the case, this document would most probably be enough for any shop to legally replicate the installation.
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by TwinStarScott »

From a paperwork standpoint - it's much more straightforward than that: as my understanding is a FS210 can be signed off as a minor alteration by any appropriately rated avionics shop.

Also, from a variety of knowledgeable sources over the years - getting a field approval signed off by any FSDO is next to impossible.
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by jasona »

I have spoken to Diamond at length about this issue. There is no way to install a FS210 connected to the G1000 to support flight plan transfer due to software issues alone. The Garmin 345R does everything but flight plan transfer.

To my knowledge my plane was the first to get a 345R install at the factory in London, I have no bluetooth issues.
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by mdieter »

jasona wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:34 am I have spoken to Diamond at length about this issue. There is no way to install a FS210 connected to the G1000 to support flight plan transfer due to software issues alone. The Garmin 345R does everything but flight plan transfer.
I can confirm this. I talked with a Garmin service person and they told me the 345R would not support flight plan transfer. I also believe that the current (Diamond) versions of G1000 software do not support flight plan transfer
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Re: Garmin Flight Stream

Post by TwinStarScott »

Mark,

This is such an important subject and is worth nailing down completely, especially for those who have yet to install a 345R.

So let's assume a GTX-345R is installed and the G1000 software version is high enough ( see petition) to allow for flight plan transfers:

then a FS210 (or FS510 for the NXi) is also required to access this feature. Did you happen to ask the Garmin rep. this question specifically? Or can anyone else positively confirm or deny this? 

If the answer is yes, than owners with pending GTX-345R installations have a weighty decision to make (regardless of rear bulkhead material). Which is, whether or not to spend the additional ~$1,000* to also install a FS210 - based solely upon the owner's desire to have access to this time-saving feature. In addition, the owner would need to have some confidence DAI will soon release a software upgrade for the legacy G1000 fleet.

This one point alone illustrates just how helpful it would be for DAI to engage with participants on this international forum. As owners, we need to be able to make informed decisions based upon all of the variables when upgrading our avionics. 

PS - my understanding is the NXi equipped Diamonds will be the first to have access to the flight transfer feature - once the long anticipated FS510 (card) upgrade is made available to them by DAI. 

* Adding a FS210 after the fact is very expensive due to difficult access and the associated labor costs. Whereas during the 345R installation, labor costs to add a FS210 are minimal.
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