First Time for Everything

Any DA42 related topics.

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
robert63
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:53 am
First Name: Robert
Aircraft Type: DA42NG
Aircraft Registration: OE-FAR
Airports: LOWL
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by robert63 »

Here in Europe they wouldn’t fuel a plane with the pilot/customer not present. Anyone knows why there is this difference between Northamerica and here?
User avatar
Colin
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
First Name: Colin
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: N972RD
Airports: KFHR
Has thanked: 319 times
Been thanked: 527 times

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by Colin »

there is this difference between North America and here
We're lazy, particularly the Americans.

It's difficult to say there's one reason, especially since things vary a *lot* even just state-to-state here in the American portion of North America. Most things are driven by loss of life in the federal regulations of flight and by liability and lawsuits in the business end of things. I guess "presence of owner during fueling" has not reached into either realm. I'd be curious if it is regulatory in Europe or just common sense behavior.

(And it's not actually being lazy, it's probably the reverse. There's a sense of "hurry" in pretty much every aspect of American life. This is likely partly Puritan ethics left over from a couple hundred years ago and partly 1940s labor-efficiency studies and practices that increased efficiency. So everything has to happen immediately and with the least waiting time for a customer. Obviously, fueling while they are using the restroom is the best practice for that. Same with making sure they don't have to chock their own wheels, carry their own luggage into the FBO and so forth.)
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 1473 times

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by CFIDave »

In the 5 years I've been flying Diamond twins I have an iron-clad rule that I *MUST* be present for all JetA fueling -- no exceptions. The aux tank doors at the rear of the engine nacelles must be unlocked and relocked every time those tanks are fueled. And if a line guy fills the main tanks all the way to the top, the right tank will always leak out of the fuel vents, making a mess. So it's actually helpful for me to be present in order to supervise the fueling operation.

Sometimes this is very inconvenient, such as last week when fueling before departure at Treasure Cay (MYAT) in the Bahamas. I twice had to walk nearly 1/2 mile between the plane and the FBO that's located on the street side of the main terminal building (this FBO strangely isn't adjacent to the ramp): once to supervise fueling, and then back to pay my fuel bill.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
User avatar
Lance Murray
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1163
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:25 pm
First Name: Lance
Aircraft Type: DA40
Airports:
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by Lance Murray »

After Bob Hoover’s incident he installed and advocated for fittings that prevented a jet A nozzle from being used. Unfortunately it doesn’t work the other direction.
User avatar
jasona
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:24 pm
First Name: Jason
Aircraft Type: DA42NG
Aircraft Registration: N272MB
Airports:

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by jasona »

Was this at signature or kaiser?
User avatar
TimS
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
First Name: Timothy
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N1446C
Airports: 6B6 Stowe MA
Has thanked: 94 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by TimS »

CFIDave wrote:The aux tank doors at the rear of the engine nacelles must be unlocked and relocked every time those tanks are fueled. And if a line guy fills the main tanks all the way to the top, the right tank will always leak out of the fuel vents, making a mess.
Why do you have to "lock" the aux tanks?
Also, I have seen reference to the "overflow leak" on the right tank a few places. Is this common to all the DA-42?

Tim
jb642DA
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:16 pm
First Name: John
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N2691Y
Airports: KPTK KDTW
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by jb642DA »

Hi Tim -

The "leaking fuel vent" is a result of the fuel system design -

From Section 7 of the AFM:

"Main Fuel Tanks
Each tank consists of three aluminum chambers which are connected by a flexible hose.
The tank is filled through a filler in the outboard fuel chamber. Only four liter (1 US gal) ' of fuel in each wing are unusable, so that a total quantity of 94.6 liter (25 US gal) in each
wing is usable.
There are two tank vents. One includes a check valve with a capillary and one includes a relief pressure valve, which operates at 150 mbar (2 PSI) and allows fuel and air to flow to the outside with higher internal pressure. The relief pressure valve protects the tank against high pressure, if the tank was overfilled in case of an auxiliary fuel transfer failure. The check valve with capillary allows air to enter the tank but prevents flow of fuel to the outside. The capillary equalizes the air pressure during climb. The hose terminals are located on the underside of the wing, approximately 2 meters (7 ft) from the wing tip."

The "higher internal pressure" can be caused by heating or barometric pressure changes!
Fill tank to the brim, even in the winter, and fuel will "leak out"! I ask the fueler to stop 1 inch from the "brim"!

Since 742SA doesn't have "AUX TANKS", I don't know why they must be locked - I couldn't find an AFM reference regarding "locking the AUX TANK caps"; Hopefully, someone else will answer that.
Looking!
1980 414A - N2691Y (sold)
DA62 - N100DA 62.078 (sold)
DA42TDi - N742SA 42.AC112 (sold)
User avatar
cptndavid
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:59 pm
First Name: David
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: N16FA
Airports: N87
Has thanked: 157 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by cptndavid »

I ask the line guy to stop at the fuel cap wire on the tab of the right wing. usually works.
jb642DA
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:16 pm
First Name: John
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N2691Y
Airports: KPTK KDTW
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by jb642DA »

Ps: Here's a link for the "all" the Diamond manuals - http://www.diamondaircraft.com/technical-publications/
Looking!
1980 414A - N2691Y (sold)
DA62 - N100DA 62.078 (sold)
DA42TDi - N742SA 42.AC112 (sold)
User avatar
TimS
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
First Name: Timothy
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N1446C
Airports: 6B6 Stowe MA
Has thanked: 94 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: First Time for Everything

Post by TimS »

ah, thanks. I did not think to look for the AFM.
I would think that 2psi should be sufficient. Assume worst case the relief pressure valve is located at the vent. This is about 8 inches (my guess) below the top of the tank.
Some basic conversion:
7lbs per gallon ~ 52lbs per cubic foot
52lbs/cubic foot ~ 0.03psi (inch height).
0.03psi * 8in = 0.24psi

So either my math is off, of the check valve has gone bad in many cases.

Tim
Post Reply