Diamond announces an electric DA40
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- Boatguy
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
I love the idea of electric planes and I think there is a very good fit with big flight schools which are the markets that Diamond cares about first and foremost.
But Diamond is spread incredibly thin over the DA20, DA40, DA40NG, DA42-VI, DA50, DA62, and DART. At least five air frames and six power plants, and that's generously consolidating the Austro's and MPP models! Many of us are experiencing the poor job they are doing of managing all those airframes, powerplants and combinations thereof. And now they suggest adding another power plant?
Meanwhile Cirrus, owned by a much larger state owned Chinese company with far greater assets, has far higher production volumes with just two airframes and three power plants (if we consolidate the IO-550 and IO-550T).
Diamond's product plans far exceed their ability to reliably produce and support these products. And it's very clear that Wanfeng is not investing a lot of money in Diamond, at least not outside the domestic market in China.
Diamond needs to be cutting products, not adding new products.
But Diamond is spread incredibly thin over the DA20, DA40, DA40NG, DA42-VI, DA50, DA62, and DART. At least five air frames and six power plants, and that's generously consolidating the Austro's and MPP models! Many of us are experiencing the poor job they are doing of managing all those airframes, powerplants and combinations thereof. And now they suggest adding another power plant?
Meanwhile Cirrus, owned by a much larger state owned Chinese company with far greater assets, has far higher production volumes with just two airframes and three power plants (if we consolidate the IO-550 and IO-550T).
Diamond's product plans far exceed their ability to reliably produce and support these products. And it's very clear that Wanfeng is not investing a lot of money in Diamond, at least not outside the domestic market in China.
Diamond needs to be cutting products, not adding new products.
Last edited by Boatguy on Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
- jast
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
This is the right way to go! A great step forward Diamond!
I love my DA40NG because it is already so fuel efficient. But many trips are 90min or less (typical scenic flights) so for certain missions this would already be sufficient.
The only thing I am wondering: Bye Aerospace did design a specific aircraft for electric flight and achieved allegedly a 1:20 glide ratio. There are some simple improvements like less cooling intakes which seem to push this number up. The DA40NG has 1:9.7. So if they would optimize the aircraft more for electric could they achieve also 1:20ish? Wouldn’t that instantly double the flight time and suddenly make this product so more usable? I think it’s mainly nose design and battery placement, so it wouldn’t necessarily be a completely new aircraft…
Regards,
Jan
I love my DA40NG because it is already so fuel efficient. But many trips are 90min or less (typical scenic flights) so for certain missions this would already be sufficient.
The only thing I am wondering: Bye Aerospace did design a specific aircraft for electric flight and achieved allegedly a 1:20 glide ratio. There are some simple improvements like less cooling intakes which seem to push this number up. The DA40NG has 1:9.7. So if they would optimize the aircraft more for electric could they achieve also 1:20ish? Wouldn’t that instantly double the flight time and suddenly make this product so more usable? I think it’s mainly nose design and battery placement, so it wouldn’t necessarily be a completely new aircraft…
Regards,
Jan
- yl472401
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
Correct statement. not to mention the ticking bomb that's carried under the air frame all the time.nathanda40 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:04 pmIt's a cool concept but I feel like 90 minutes of flight time is far off from a production model. Maybe that's with VFR reserve? I think if it can reasonably stay in the air for 2 hours then it would work great for flight schools with that kind of recharge time, but 90 minutes is kind of scary IMO.haykinson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:57 pm
https://www.diamondaircraft.com/en/flig ... -aircraft/
Summary: 90 minute flight time, 205Wh/kg energy density, 20 minute recharge time. Test flights in 2022, certification 2023. Unclear if quoted times are achievable at launch.
Sounds like they feel confident enough in their tech to start moving from prototypes to sellable units. It's anyone's guess whether flight schools will go for this, but if operating costs are reasonable then I can imagine these airplanes starting to enter the training market. Maintenance costs for a fleet of electric airplanes have got to be far lower than any other kind of an airplane of that class.
It takes a lot to make the electrical powered aircraft to compete with Austro
Diamond DA40, Diamond DA42NG, PPL, IR
- Rick
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
Maybe Diamond will add a big red handle on the floor to eject the battery pod if it starts to melt down!
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- pietromarx
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
FUD.
Last edited by pietromarx on Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- pietromarx
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
That would suit me, too. LA-SD, LA-SB, NY-BOS, MSP-CHI, etc.
3 hours would handle LA-SF, LA-LAS, LAS-PHX, etc.
- pietromarx
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
Check this reasonable piece out.
https://www.avweb.com/insider/why-diamo ... er-turner/
Obviously, Diamond's core strength is in integrating powerplants into reasonably good airframes and not in keeping on the digital side (G1000 ... grrrr ...).
https://www.avweb.com/insider/why-diamo ... er-turner/
Obviously, Diamond's core strength is in integrating powerplants into reasonably good airframes and not in keeping on the digital side (G1000 ... grrrr ...).
- Lou
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
It’s actually not FUD. I have a friend building an experimental electric plane. He has to design for and satisfy the agency on exactly this contingency and has to simulate the condition before he gets approval.
Batteries have risk. High energy density batteries have elevated risk. You can choose lower energy density for lower risk but it is still there. I don’t know why we cannot have a realistic conversation about this.
- chili4way
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
The quality of a conversation often depends on how it gets started. Starting with "ticking bomb" will result in a different kind of conversation than "risk mitigation strategies of lithium batteries in aircraft".I don’t know why we cannot have a realistic conversation about this.
Diamond has a history of designing aircraft to mitigate risks (e.g. the double wing spar design of the DA40 wing to protect the fuel tanks), so I'm interested in seeing what they and Electric Power Systems (EPS) will do regarding the various risks in normal, abnormal, and emergency operations.
- Rich
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Re: Diamond announces an electric DA40
It doesn't take a Lithium Ion battery pack to initiate an electrical fire. A mere short in the wrong wire will do it. I once almost set fire to an Ercoupe by simply using the wrong screw to refasten a cockpit panel after completion of an annual. Then there is this Cirrus Jet at Santa Monica in 2019:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3pFxYJt6evc/ ... Report.jpg
As pointed out, designs must address risks. Every plane has them.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3pFxYJt6evc/ ... Report.jpg
As pointed out, designs must address risks. Every plane has them.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5