Question about the backup battery.
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- Don
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:15 pm
- First Name: Don
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N623DS
- Airports: KTOA
- Has thanked: 123 times
- Been thanked: 162 times
Question about the backup battery.
Does anyone know if the backup battery behind the panel gets recharged during flight or is just charged once at the factory?
Thanks,
Don
Thanks,
Don
Diamond Star XLS, N623DS, SN40.1076
- Rick
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:09 pm
- First Name: Rick
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: NONE
- Airports: KROA
- Has thanked: 107 times
- Been thanked: 297 times
Re: Question about the backup battery.
Assuming you are talking about the Li-ion battery pack that is energized by the "Emergency" switch on the panel, it is completely disconnected from the aircraft electrical system when the switch is off. So no charging ever happens in the plane. This applies to the original AA-cell battery pack as well.
Roanoke, VA (KROA)
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4604
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1185 times
Re: Question about the backup battery.
Lithium in a battery does not automatically equate to what we refer to as lithium-Ion. Further, not all lithium-based batteries are secondary (rechargeable). There are many different chemistries of lithium-anode batteries. Some are primary and some secondary. I have a Lithium Iron Phosphate in my motorcycle as a substitute for the much heavier Lead-acid OEM battery. It is, of course, a secondary type.
I have used primary lithium batteries in headsets. Use 'em up and throw 'em away. I don't know if these can be recycled.
I have used primary lithium batteries in headsets. Use 'em up and throw 'em away. I don't know if these can be recycled.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- Rick
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:09 pm
- First Name: Rick
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: NONE
- Airports: KROA
- Has thanked: 107 times
- Been thanked: 297 times
Re: Question about the backup battery.
Yikes! I forgot you are a battery expert - I should have thought a bit more about how I identified the battery!
The one emergency battery pack I cut open simply contained 8 Panasonic CR123A batteries wired in series. Every battery pack I have replaced over the years has measured the same voltage when I took it out as the new replacement I was installing. Given that the battery pack just sits in the plane for 2 years, disconnected, I guess that would be expected.
The one emergency battery pack I cut open simply contained 8 Panasonic CR123A batteries wired in series. Every battery pack I have replaced over the years has measured the same voltage when I took it out as the new replacement I was installing. Given that the battery pack just sits in the plane for 2 years, disconnected, I guess that would be expected.
Roanoke, VA (KROA)
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4604
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1185 times
Re: Question about the backup battery.
Too bad Diamond didn't set this up like they did with the AA Duracells, where you buy a few relatively cheap batteries and replace them in a reusable carrier. These CR123A cells themselves are relatively inexpensive, though more limited in what you could use them for after replacement. Effectively the AA Duracells are free.Rick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:48 pm Yikes! I forgot you are a battery expert - I should have thought a bit more about how I identified the battery!
The one emergency battery pack I cut open simply contained 8 Panasonic CR123A batteries wired in series. Every battery pack I have replaced over the years has measured the same voltage when I took it out as the new replacement I was installing. Given that the battery pack just sits in the plane for 2 years, disconnected, I guess that would be expected.DSC01593a.jpg
In my plane the emergency pack is only available for the AI and floodlight. Unless I lose electrical power at night, I wouldn't need both. If it happened in day IMC, only the AI. With new electronic AI's now routinely having their own backup battery, the equation is changed. And with the way I now use my iPad, the floodlight probably also becomes redundant.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- Boatguy
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1859
- Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:48 am
- First Name: Russ
- Aircraft Type: DA62
- Aircraft Registration: N962M
- Airports: KSTS
- Has thanked: 1359 times
- Been thanked: 1190 times
Re: Question about the backup battery.
How about we install a GI-275 and remove the battery pack, flood light strip and switch entirely?
- Steve
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1971
- Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:23 am
- First Name: Steve
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N432SC
- Airports: 1T7
- Has thanked: 85 times
- Been thanked: 503 times
Re: Question about the backup battery.
Russ:
The backup battery powers only the AI and pilot's map light. The flood is powered off the lighting bus. Apart from that, I don't think you could do that without a 337, and maybe not even then, since the airplane was certified with a backup battery-powered light. One of the many reasons the Experimental world is much more...
...reasonable.
Steve
- Boatguy
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1859
- Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:48 am
- First Name: Russ
- Aircraft Type: DA62
- Aircraft Registration: N962M
- Airports: KSTS
- Has thanked: 1359 times
- Been thanked: 1190 times
Re: Question about the backup battery.
My plane does not have a "lighting" bus. The flood light and backup AI, are powered by the Essential bus in the event of alternator failure, and then the backup battery after the main battery is depleted. From the AFM:
"In addition, a non-rechargeable dry battery is installed in the I FR model as a further source
of power for the attitude gyro (artificial horizon) and the flood light. When the EMERGENCY
switch is set to ON, these two systems are supplied with power for 1 hour, independent
of all other electrical consumers. During each 100 hour inspection , this battery is checked
for proper functioning. Every 2 years or after use (broken seal on the switch) the battery
pack must be replaced."
But you are correct that the battery and flood light are part of the KOEL in the AFM; don't leave home without them.
But since it would be less expensive for Diamond, in both parts and labor, to eliminate the battery, switch, backup altimeter, backup AI and backup airspeed, I would not be surprised if they re-certified the plane with a GI-275, or even two. They have to periodically re-certify the plane anyway for avionics changes. I think they could convince Transport Canada that the self contained GI-275 is more reliable than three analog electro-mechanical devices, one of which requires a backup battery and all of which require external illumination.
And then I can "update" my plane to a currently certified configuration and be entirely legal, just as owners can update a non-WAAS airplane to WAAS.
Hope springs eternal!
"In addition, a non-rechargeable dry battery is installed in the I FR model as a further source
of power for the attitude gyro (artificial horizon) and the flood light. When the EMERGENCY
switch is set to ON, these two systems are supplied with power for 1 hour, independent
of all other electrical consumers. During each 100 hour inspection , this battery is checked
for proper functioning. Every 2 years or after use (broken seal on the switch) the battery
pack must be replaced."
But you are correct that the battery and flood light are part of the KOEL in the AFM; don't leave home without them.
But since it would be less expensive for Diamond, in both parts and labor, to eliminate the battery, switch, backup altimeter, backup AI and backup airspeed, I would not be surprised if they re-certified the plane with a GI-275, or even two. They have to periodically re-certify the plane anyway for avionics changes. I think they could convince Transport Canada that the self contained GI-275 is more reliable than three analog electro-mechanical devices, one of which requires a backup battery and all of which require external illumination.
And then I can "update" my plane to a currently certified configuration and be entirely legal, just as owners can update a non-WAAS airplane to WAAS.
Hope springs eternal!
- Steve
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1971
- Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:23 am
- First Name: Steve
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N432SC
- Airports: 1T7
- Has thanked: 85 times
- Been thanked: 503 times
Re: Question about the backup battery.
Ah, I see that you have an NG. You are correct, the Flood is powered from the Essential Bus, but the backup battery on mine does not power the Flood (or anything else on the Essential Bus) in any configuration. Only the Pilot's map light and the AI. I dutifully replace the AA Duracells every 2 years, and measure the voltage at every Annual Inspection. One of these days, I'm going to flip the Emergency switch during the Annual, and see how long they last.
Steve
Steve
- Boatguy
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1859
- Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:48 am
- First Name: Russ
- Aircraft Type: DA62
- Aircraft Registration: N962M
- Airports: KSTS
- Has thanked: 1359 times
- Been thanked: 1190 times
Re: Question about the backup battery.
That's a great idea! I think somebody else said they measured the voltage. But yeah, turn it on since we have to pay to replace it anyway!