The next stuff
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4592
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1180 times
Re: The next stuff
Something interesting I've been seeing lately in various places stating something like needing to get iron gyros rebuilt/replaced every couple of years. In my experience this is baloney. Sure they wear out eventually, but I've owned a number of planes over the years with the usual three-pack of gyros and have never had a single one fail. I've also rented a number of older planes and they've never failed in these, either. I'm expecting my AI to give me a problem before long, due to its rather impressive screaming-meemie noise, but it's been working for 17 years. But really, every couple of years? Come on.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4592
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1180 times
Re: The next stuff
Just for fun I made a couple of "paper dolls" representing the faces of a G3X and G5. I made a couple assumptions and this seems like the most feasible orientation. The assumptions:
- The current situation of the G5 being disallowed in a DA40 is somehow removed as an obstacle.
- Presenting both the HSI and the Nav 2 CDI works OK on the G3X, so one doesn't need the second electro-mechanical one.
- The NAV Annunciator panel (above the current A/S indicator) becomes superfluous and can be removed, but the White Wire display remains.
- Either the A/P is replaced with a GFC500, so I don't need the TC or it gets moved over to that spare hole on the right (I don't object to this particular instrument being so moved. I almost never use it).
- Shock Panel removed and the Compass and the G5 both get hard-mounted to the revised panel.
Without incorporating the engine monitor stuff and keeping the KAP140, hardware costs are around $13K Of course there's the installation, especially reworking/rerouting the wiring - no small task. Then there are the inevitable installation glitches to be resolved.
- The current situation of the G5 being disallowed in a DA40 is somehow removed as an obstacle.
- Presenting both the HSI and the Nav 2 CDI works OK on the G3X, so one doesn't need the second electro-mechanical one.
- The NAV Annunciator panel (above the current A/S indicator) becomes superfluous and can be removed, but the White Wire display remains.
- Either the A/P is replaced with a GFC500, so I don't need the TC or it gets moved over to that spare hole on the right (I don't object to this particular instrument being so moved. I almost never use it).
- Shock Panel removed and the Compass and the G5 both get hard-mounted to the revised panel.
Without incorporating the engine monitor stuff and keeping the KAP140, hardware costs are around $13K Of course there's the installation, especially reworking/rerouting the wiring - no small task. Then there are the inevitable installation glitches to be resolved.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- blsewardjr
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 485
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:19 pm
- First Name: Bernie
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N377DS
- Airports: KCHO
- Has thanked: 118 times
- Been thanked: 146 times
Re: The next stuff
This is good to know. I'm thinking more along the lines of the Aspen E5 (5K) with autopilot connection (1K) and the Aerovonics AV-20 (.8K) where your compass is mounted. Gets rid of two of the three iron gyros, retains the airspeed and altitude needles that I prefer, doesn't require a backup EFIS (but the AV-20 nonetheless provides an unofficial emergency AI), and provides cheaper TAS calculations and AoA through the AV-20. Unlike the G5 this is doable now. The drawback is the requirement for a Aspen GPS antenna/magnetometer on the rear fuselage, which would require composite work. IF a dual G5 setup materializes, it appears to avoid that because the Garmin magnetometer can be mounted out in the wing and the separate GPS antenna on the glare shield. However, the G5 doesn't have a flight path dot (the Aspen E5 has one on the HSI part), nor is the glide slope presented on the AI, which allows a tighter scan on the Aspen E5. Another possibility would be a Aerovonics AV-30 AI paired with a Garmin G5 HSI. Assuming both become certified for the DA40, this would accomplish the same things (AoA, TAS, backup AI, getting rid of two iron gyros) for even less -- (1.6K + 3.4K).
While it's good to hear that the Garmin G5 may be certified for the DA40 soon, I'm very skeptical that the G500 or any other modern autopilot will ever be certified for the DA40. Autopilots require expensive airframe testing for certification and I can't see, given the small DA40 steam gauge fleet, that any manufacturer would find it worthwhile. Therefore, I'm concentrating on keeping the KAP140 as reliable as possible.
While it's good to hear that the Garmin G5 may be certified for the DA40 soon, I'm very skeptical that the G500 or any other modern autopilot will ever be certified for the DA40. Autopilots require expensive airframe testing for certification and I can't see, given the small DA40 steam gauge fleet, that any manufacturer would find it worthwhile. Therefore, I'm concentrating on keeping the KAP140 as reliable as possible.
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
- blsewardjr
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 485
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:19 pm
- First Name: Bernie
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N377DS
- Airports: KCHO
- Has thanked: 118 times
- Been thanked: 146 times
Re: The next stuff
During my pitot/static test today, I quizzed my avionics guy about the Aspen Evolution (for which he is a dealer). Regarding my point about having to do composite work to mount the GPS/magnetometer/OAT sensor externally, he said that Aspen allows the unit to be mounted internally without modifying the fuselage. If you do so, you give up the TAS data (requires OAT), but this is not a problem since the cheaper Aspen E5 version of the Evolution series does not display this data. He also thought that you would give the Aspen emergency backup GPS, but given that several DA40 owners have successfully used internal GPS antennas for their GTX345 transponders, I'm not so sure that the Aspen GPS antenna wouldn't work here as well. Food for thought.
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
- Steve
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1953
- Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:23 am
- First Name: Steve
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N432SC
- Airports: 1T7
- Has thanked: 81 times
- Been thanked: 493 times
Re: The next stuff
You could incorporate an OAT sensor...blsewardjr wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:00 am If you do so, you give up the TAS data (requires OAT), but this is not a problem since the cheaper Aspen E5 version of the Evolution series does not display this data.
I added an extra one on the underside of the Pilot-side fuselage near the step when I installed my CO Guardian CO-553 carbon monoxide detector. It provides OAT and density altitude. It simply requires drilling a single hole to mount the transducer. There is even a grounding strap with a pre-formed hole there: You can see the internal view of the sensor in the center of the photo. The red and black twisted pair runs behind the instrument panel to the instrument: Steve
- Pilot55
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:39 pm
- First Name: Bret
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N266ds
- Airports:
- Been thanked: 45 times
Re: The next stuff
here is my panel on my 2003. Aspen 2000 PRO SV with Geo Charts and G5 as back up. This gives me three ahars and three battery backups.
- blsewardjr
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 485
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:19 pm
- First Name: Bernie
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N377DS
- Airports: KCHO
- Has thanked: 118 times
- Been thanked: 146 times
Re: The next stuff
Bret. Very nice. interesting that Garmin won't allow the G5 to be used as a backup for the G3X but Aspen allows it for the Aspen Evolution. Where did you locate your RMS(s) with the magnetometers?
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
- blsewardjr
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 485
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:19 pm
- First Name: Bernie
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N377DS
- Airports: KCHO
- Has thanked: 118 times
- Been thanked: 146 times
Re: The next stuff
Does the OAT and GPS antenna work in that location?
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
- Pilot55
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:39 pm
- First Name: Bret
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N266ds
- Airports:
- Been thanked: 45 times
Re: The next stuff
OAT's are on the belly of the plane and gps's are on the top. Only the mags are in the wings,one for each aspen