While flying in solid IMC this weekend getting vectored by NY Approach for RNAV 04 at KCDW, I tried to load the approach procedure and it was not there. Only options were the opposite runway LOC 22 and RNAV 22. KCDW has multiple approaches but they wouldnt load. I last flew the RNAV 04 approach end of September and it loaded fine. And I had just updated data cards before going on this Thanksgiving trip.
Garmin seemed to be aware of this issue and believes I was unable to load the approach because of FAA Service Advisory 13.72, which removes approaches from the G1000 that do not have appropriate vertical guidance. They said a G1000 GDU software update to version 15.0 or higher would solve this problem. (not sure I entirely follow but that was Garmin's belief).
If this is true, this would affect both WAAS and non-WAAS DA-40s, which would both have incompatible software with new data card updates. I believe I fly behind GDU 9.15 and WAAS planes fly behind 12.05, and we need 15.0 or higher.
So 1) has anyone else had this issue? If not I recommend double checking in case you do. 2) Garmin said they have already made the required software 15.0 version update available to Diamond but they has chosen not to release it. Thanks to Scott's petition perhaps we get some momentum to update our software, 3) Owners could elect for field approval to go around Diamond and install the Garmin software update 15.0 themselves. Or 4) and potentially more likely, perhaps when I re-install and re-load my data cards maybe the missing approach will magically re-appear.
Either way, with a focus on safety by both the FAA and Diamond, it is beyond crazy to me that their appropriate solution would be to remove viable certified GPS approaches from our systems without a warning on avionics boot-up. Requiring New York approach to work with Tetorboro, Newark, Laguardia, Caldwell and Morristown to re-sequence arrivals in MVFR conditions and make room for me to land on an opposite runway was an impressive feat this Saturday (thank you controllers). And throwing a surprise at an operator during IMC, and having them land with a tailwind (and shear) is certainly not how to make flying safer -- rant over.
I have emailed diamond and they already wrote back and said they are looking into this. And Ive already signed Scott's petition on the forum (thanks for organizing that).
Any other feedback here would be greatly appreciated.
- Brian
WTF moment - G1000 doesnt have published approach
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- briankelly327
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Re: WTF moment - G1000 doesnt have published approach
I have this exact same problem at my local airport KROA with the RNAV GPS 24 approach, and I had the same WTF moment trying to load the (non-existent) approach after being assigned it. I probably followed the same path you did, calling Diamond and then Garmin, and finally was directed to SA 13.72 - what a mess! This is another GREAT argument for why Diamond needs to release a new software update. It turns out our outdated G1000 GDU firmware version cannot deal with RNAV approaches that end with a "visual segment", so Garmin's solution is to simply refuse to acknowledge that they exist. You can't load them, because they don't even appear in the approach menu for the airport.
Roanoke, VA (KROA)
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Re: WTF moment - G1000 doesnt have published approach
There have been a few of these types of things over the years with the G1000 (and other avionics). Jackson Hole, KCDW, KSUN, KROA, and ... ?
The answer is for Diamond to get its act together. Supposedly, they are in the process of doing so and Scott's petition may help.
The answer is for Diamond to get its act together. Supposedly, they are in the process of doing so and Scott's petition may help.
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Re: WTF moment - G1000 doesnt have published approach
Here is the list of excluded procedures from the Garmin website. Page 17 begins the list we have been discussing (more than a hundred RNAV approaches in the US). This problem was identified back in 2013 and was resolved in the 15.0 GDU software version. Here we are, 5 years later, still waiting for Diamond to get on board and fix this!
Roanoke, VA (KROA)
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Re: WTF moment - G1000 doesnt have published approach
I also just noticed that back in 2016 Diamond released this Service Instruction SI40-155 where Diamond explains this problem, and then states at the end "This issue is resolved in the following software versions: ... G1000 GDU 15.0 ...". Maybe we all need to start asking how we can get this "fix" from Diamond. Oh wait ... there is already another thread for that ... sigh ...
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Re: WTF moment - G1000 doesnt have published approach
This discussion caused me to check and see if my GNS units might have the same issue. They do not appear to. Though I only checked the RNAV 04 at KCDW, it loaded and activated fine, even though it's a questionable activity sitting in a hangar in central Oregon
There is a bit of qualification, I suppose, as the software therein was updated a few years ago and they are WAAS units.
There is a bit of qualification, I suppose, as the software therein was updated a few years ago and they are WAAS units.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- Rick
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Re: WTF moment - G1000 doesnt have published approach
Rich, per the Service Instruction then, you must have something later than v5.0x in your GNS units.Rich wrote:This discussion caused me to check and see if my GNS units might have the same issue. They do not appear to. Though I only checked the RNAV 04 at KCDW, it loaded and activated fine, even though it's a questionable activity sitting in a hangar in central Oregon
There is a bit of qualification, I suppose, as the software therein was updated a few years ago and they are WAAS units.
Roanoke, VA (KROA)
- Rich
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Re: WTF moment - G1000 doesnt have published approach
I didn't think to check when I tested it, but according to the A/C log, I do have SW revision 5.10, updated April '14. So the word of caution goes out to those who have GNS/W units with older software.Rick wrote:Rich, per the Service Instruction then, you must have something later than v5.0x in your GNS units.Rich wrote:This discussion caused me to check and see if my GNS units might have the same issue. They do not appear to. Though I only checked the RNAV 04 at KCDW, it loaded and activated fine, even though it's a questionable activity sitting in a hangar in central Oregon
There is a bit of qualification, I suppose, as the software therein was updated a few years ago and they are WAAS units.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5