Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- Don
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:15 pm
- First Name: Don
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N623DS
- Airports: KTOA
- Has thanked: 123 times
- Been thanked: 162 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
It is hard for me to fathom that the increased gross weight of 242 pounds over the XLT, plus approximately four or five less square feet of wing surface area would cause such a delta, (15 knots) in stall speed when flaps are in the fully up position. Would just that amount of difference with the wing loading cause such a large amount of stall speed change?
Diamond Star XLS, N623DS, SN40.1076
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4604
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1185 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
It's also a function of where the CG is. Remember, forward CG produces higher stall speeds and that is where the tests are performed.Don wrote:It is hard for me to fathom that the increased gross weight of 242 pounds over the XLT, plus approximately four or five less square feet of wing surface area would cause such a delta in stall speed when flaps are in the fully up position. Would just that amount of difference with the wing loading cause such a large amount of stall speed change?
Example:
DA40-180's at 2646 lb has a forward CG limit of 97.6 in., clean stall speed 53 KIAS
The NG at 2646 lb has a forward CG limit at about 95.9 in., clean stall speed 64 KIAS
And remember that the wing doesn't just support the weight of the airplane, it also has to counter the downforce of the elevator. The NG has 374 lb-ft. more downward moment at this particular CG loading than the -180's which must be countered by the elevator.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- Keith M
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 363
- Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:54 am
- First Name: Keith
- Aircraft Type: DA40D
- Airports: EGNH
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 46 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
It's equally hard for me to fathom why Diamond would risk their reputation for building safe aircraft by letting the NG get to market like that. The consequence is a lot of extra energy to bleed off if the engine quits, so they must be keeping their fingers crossed that the Austro really is more reliable than the CD-155.
- Don
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:15 pm
- First Name: Don
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N623DS
- Airports: KTOA
- Has thanked: 123 times
- Been thanked: 162 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
Thank you Rich for the detailed explanation.Rich wrote:It's also a function of where the CG is. Remember, forward CG produces higher stall speeds and that is where the tests are performed.Don wrote:It is hard for me to fathom that the increased gross weight of 242 pounds over the XLT, plus approximately four or five less square feet of wing surface area would cause such a delta in stall speed when flaps are in the fully up position. Would just that amount of difference with the wing loading cause such a large amount of stall speed change?
Example:
DA40-180's at 2646 lb has a forward CG limit of 97.6 in., clean stall speed 53 KIAS
The NG at 2646 lb has a forward CG limit at about 95.9 in., clean stall speed 64 KIAS
And remember that the wing doesn't just support the weight of the airplane, it also has to counter the downforce of the elevator. The NG has 374 lb-ft. more downward moment at this particular CG loading than the -180's which must be countered by the elevator.
That said, I am now a little confused about my own XLS, (with custom order 40 gallon tanks so I can carry two backseat passengers) as the forward CG limit appears to start at 94.5 inches. Please see attached W&B calculator. Am I missing something here? Please advise. Thanks.
- Attachments
-
- DA 40 W&B N623DS.xls
- (44 KiB) Downloaded 121 times
Diamond Star XLS, N623DS, SN40.1076
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4604
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1185 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
Look at the envelope in the POH. The forward CG limit slopes back as weight increases, starting at 2161 lb to MTOW of 2646, where it’s 97.6.Don wrote:Thank you Rich for the detailed explanation.Rich wrote:It's also a function of where the CG is. Remember, forward CG produces higher stall speeds and that is where the tests are performed.Don wrote:It is hard for me to fathom that the increased gross weight of 242 pounds over the XLT, plus approximately four or five less square feet of wing surface area would cause such a delta in stall speed when flaps are in the fully up position. Would just that amount of difference with the wing loading cause such a large amount of stall speed change?
Example:
DA40-180's at 2646 lb has a forward CG limit of 97.6 in., clean stall speed 53 KIAS
The NG at 2646 lb has a forward CG limit at about 95.9 in., clean stall speed 64 KIAS
And remember that the wing doesn't just support the weight of the airplane, it also has to counter the downforce of the elevator. The NG has 374 lb-ft. more downward moment at this particular CG loading than the -180's which must be countered by the elevator.
That said, I am now a little confused about my own XLS, (with custom order 40 gallon tanks so I can carry two backseat passengers) as the forward CG limit appears to start at 94.5 inches. Please see attached W&B calculator. Am I missing something here? Please advise. Thanks.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- carym
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 1021
- Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:00 pm
- First Name: cary
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N336TS
- Airports: KTYQ
- Has thanked: 37 times
- Been thanked: 83 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
I just saw a Republic Airlines DA40NG at our airport today, sitting next to a DA40 XLS. They must be starting the training for new pilots to fly for Republic. As Dave pointed out, the wing tips have the large winglets, but on this plane they were painted bright orange. it just looks bizarre on the white wings. Since these pilots will be training in a FADEC single engine and then in a FADEC twin (DA42) I guess they will never know how to adjust a prop control or a mixture control. So much for learning the GUMP check.
Cary
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
-
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 313
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:16 pm
- First Name: John
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N2691Y
- Airports: KPTK KDTW
- Has thanked: 51 times
- Been thanked: 143 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
Hopefully they will learn "GU"! (and "Heels on the floor")
Looking!
1980 414A - N2691Y (sold)
DA62 - N100DA 62.078 (sold)
DA42TDi - N742SA 42.AC112 (sold)
1980 414A - N2691Y (sold)
DA62 - N100DA 62.078 (sold)
DA42TDi - N742SA 42.AC112 (sold)
- Sandy
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 247
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:30 pm
- First Name: Sanford
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N159PS
- Airports: KPDK
- Has thanked: 11 times
- Been thanked: 48 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
After 45 years of flying I went to KRDU to take a course at LifeStyle relating to the Austro engines and their operation in the various Diamonds. While there I got to fly the DA40 NG that is on the cover of the August Flying magazine. John Armstrong was in the right seat, and he made two points... first, to accelerate to 65 kts (rather than my normal 56 kts) before rotating, and, second, to keep my heels on the floor. In my own plane I have already had to replace two right side brake pads, so I guess that keeping one's heels on the floor is something I need to do irrespective of the power plant sitting in the plane.jb642DA wrote...
Hopefully they will learn "GU"! (and "Heels on the floor")
Sandy
Last edited by Sandy on Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4604
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1185 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
With my old small-rudder DA40 I typically MUST drag the right brake in the early stages of takeoff (particularly at sea level) unless the runway is plenty wide and I can start by aiming toward the right edge or if it's really long and I can ease the power in very slowly. Short, narrow runways require right brake usage to some degree.jb642DA wrote:Hopefully they will learn "GU"! (and "Heels on the floor")
And I usually rotate at 55, otherwise I'm skittering along the ground. I've found picking it up at about 40 KIAS is about right with two aboard in a scenario where soft field technique is desired.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- TimS
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 561
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
- First Name: Timothy
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N1446C
- Airports: 6B6 Stowe MA
- Has thanked: 101 times
- Been thanked: 99 times
Re: Flying Magazine Review of DA40 NG
Has anyone tried a slightly slower acceleration and not drag the right brake? Bring power to 1500 RPM, enough to get the plane moving, at about 10 KIAS, go to 2000 RPM, when at 20 KIAS go full throttle....
Or some variation of this?
Tim
Or some variation of this?
Tim