“Expedite climb”
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- Colin
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Ah, I thought you meant without filing (which is my four experiences, or three of the four).
And the fourth of the four was over West Point. I had filed IFR out of Bridgeport but it was such a gorgeous day (not forecast) that I took off VFR. Then weather got worse in Scranton, where I was landing, so I called to get the IFR. The guy was *not* happy.
It's a non-issue in SoCal. And NorCal, for the most part. "It looks like more fog than they promise, so I'll need an instrument clearance into Concord." "N972RD, standby one..."
And the fourth of the four was over West Point. I had filed IFR out of Bridgeport but it was such a gorgeous day (not forecast) that I took off VFR. Then weather got worse in Scranton, where I was landing, so I called to get the IFR. The guy was *not* happy.
It's a non-issue in SoCal. And NorCal, for the most part. "It looks like more fog than they promise, so I'll need an instrument clearance into Concord." "N972RD, standby one..."
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- Sandy
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Tim, I am based at KPDK, and I do not understand what you did, or why you did it. Generally, I pick up my IFR clearance before starting to taxi, and I take off on an IFR flight plan. I don't understand why you think that there was any benefit to departing VFR and picking up your clearance en route.Tim said,
I have also, when departing KPDK in Atlanta requested flight following to an intersection where I filed the intersection as a starting point for my IFR flight plan. When I called to activate the flight plan, I told the controller I was going VFR to intersection XXXX and picking up my IFR there. Each time, the controller always said thanks, gave me the expected routing, and a squawk code with the provision to maintain VFR. Was really easy to pick up the IFR enroute.
The only "weird" thing about KPDK is that you are expected to do your runup in the runup area, and then advise KPDK Ground (not the Tower) that your runup is complete. Ground will then tell you to "monitor the Tower" and clear you to leave the runup area.
OTOH, "back in the day" I used to fly into what was then called Washington National airport, KDCA (now Reagan International), and the controllers always made it clear that I would be better off departing VFR, rather than being number 25 to await an IFR release. I would then pick up my IFR enroute.
Sandy
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Re: “Expedite climb”
At KPDK, I used it when I had the unfortunately timing to leave soon after a major sporting event, and there was a queue of jets waiting to take off. Going VFR allowed me to cut the line, and pick up my IFR later.Sandy wrote: Tim, I am based at KPDK, and I do not understand what you did, or why you did it. Generally, I pick up my IFR clearance before starting to taxi, and I take off on an IFR flight plan. I don't understand why you think that there was any benefit to departing VFR and picking up your clearance en route.
KTEB, the issue is less of a queue on the field, then getting sequenced into the airlines taking off at the large airports next door.
Tim
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Re: “Expedite climb”
The words “unable” are one of your tools. Of course you may get a penalty vector.
One of the other tools is to request “VFR ON TOP”. This may relieve the controller from separation requirements. I use VFR On Top often to navigate the Los Angeles airspace.
Get VFR ON TOP and then ask for direct.
One of the other tools is to request “VFR ON TOP”. This may relieve the controller from separation requirements. I use VFR On Top often to navigate the Los Angeles airspace.
Get VFR ON TOP and then ask for direct.
- Rich
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Lo and behold a fatal accident a few weeks back involving a Cessna 414 flying the LDJ GPS-A approach down to (and below) minimums. Lost control and went down in Colonia just to the left of course.Rich wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:51 pmThere's a similar situation at Vancouver, WA Pearson field. The LDA-A approach you never get, especially when IMC. Instead they clear you for Portland VOR-A and then let you break off to scud-run. Of course, if the weather is bad enough just go on into PDX and call Uber. The airports are that close.BkFlyer wrote:
Rich, the GPS-A LDJ is an approach I have never flown. The controllers don’t want you to do it and it’s “NA at night”. They’ll vector you to within 5-15 NM KLDJ and then usually strongly hint to cancel IFR. Yeah you can fly the approach in a pinch, but why bother when there are so many more fun practices around NY?
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- Boatguy
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Re: “Expedite climb”
These kind of reports are just horrible; certainly that pilot felt he could safely land. Gary Reeves has become an advocate for "circling approaches - just say no". As Rich says and Gary advocates, there are better choices.
- CFIDave
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Had a friend in a DA40 file IFR to go into KLDJ so he could spend a week in Manhattan this last spring.
Coming from the southwest (DC area), once he got handed off to NY Approach, they refused to let him fly the sole IFR approach (GPS-A) into KLDJ, claiming that it would conflict with Newark traffic. Conditions were IMC yet above approach minimums. But it wasn't safe or legal for him to cancel IFR and fly into KLDJ VFR. He was vectored around in the clouds for more than 45 minutes and forced to divert to more expensive plane parking and ground transportation at KMMU.
Needless to say, he was not happy. I suggested he make a phone call to NY Approach and ask to talk to a supervisor for an explanation, but he never did. To me it seems bizarre to have an instrument approach to an airport and not be allowed to use it -- especially when it's the ONLY approach -- essentially closing the airport during IFR conditions.
Coming from the southwest (DC area), once he got handed off to NY Approach, they refused to let him fly the sole IFR approach (GPS-A) into KLDJ, claiming that it would conflict with Newark traffic. Conditions were IMC yet above approach minimums. But it wasn't safe or legal for him to cancel IFR and fly into KLDJ VFR. He was vectored around in the clouds for more than 45 minutes and forced to divert to more expensive plane parking and ground transportation at KMMU.
Needless to say, he was not happy. I suggested he make a phone call to NY Approach and ask to talk to a supervisor for an explanation, but he never did. To me it seems bizarre to have an instrument approach to an airport and not be allowed to use it -- especially when it's the ONLY approach -- essentially closing the airport during IFR conditions.
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- Boatguy
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Re: “Expedite climb”
It does seem bizarre to have that approach at all. KLDJ is just 4nm from the threshold at Newark. If you go missed, you'd be making a climbing left turn across heavy jet traffic on 3 mile final. If the wind was from the E/SE this would be a situation similar to the wake turbulence accident at KRNO that sent a Bonanza straight into the ground; the prop wasn't even bent, just plastered into the asphalt.
It's entirely possible that wake turbulence is what caused the Cessna 414 crash.
It's entirely possible that wake turbulence is what caused the Cessna 414 crash.
- Rich
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Re: “Expedite climb”
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- Rich
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Re: “Expedite climb”
I'm a little confused by some views on this approach. It definitely is weird and basically unworkable, but the MAP, assuming it is correctly executed as published, takes you away from the center-lines of the EWR "04" runways, not towards. The direct path for the ILS and RNAV approaches to both these runways has you over or just to the East of the NJ Turnpike. (I used to watch these planes coming in almost directly overhead from my home in Carteret.) The MA point for this GPA-A is 2 nm West of the LDJ 09 threshold and the MAP has you turning further West at that point. I can see that still being a problem for meeting ATC separation criteria and TERPs processes do include a certain amount of width to all charted routes. But fundamentally you're not turning "into the approach path" of EWR 04 L or R. Departures from 22 L and R are another matter, but I would think altitude would take care of that. What am I missing?
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