DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

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rwtucker
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DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by rwtucker »

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Colin
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Re: DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by Colin »

I don't know why it is no longer in the database, but this was the same accident report that I had for my delivery flight for my DA40. Or, rather it was close and *could* have been the same. I had a flat tire on the pilot side and the plane departed the runway at KVGT North Las Vegas. It *would* have had the same "struck a landing light and runway sign..." ending except that the week before someone had done the SAME thing (no flat tire) and took out the light and sign RIGHT where I slide through the gravel off the runway.

Technically the plane wasn't mine yet. Little bit of a tense lunch in Las Vegas until we found out the cause of the flat tire.
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1911Tex
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Re: DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by 1911Tex »

Severe crosswinds, blown tire, defective brake, end of runway, night vs. day, wake turbulence, take-off/landing bounce, student vs. experienced, FOD, water on runway, illness, alcohol, drugs, center of gravity weight distribution, etc., etc.. Our airport had a student on a first solo takeoff in a 20 knot 35 degree crosswind, land, bounced 3 times departing the runway...loss of control, prop strike. Instructor was fired. Sure would like more info.
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Re: DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by rwtucker »

It is the one landing factor that worries me most about the DA40, non-steerable nose wheel. Larry, I assume there is no way to maintain enough control to remain on the runway if you experience a touchdown blowout of a MLG tire. Correct?
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Re: DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by 1911Tex »

I know from experience that a tailwheel plane experiencing a MLG blowout at high speed on pavement is an experience you can't forget even after 40 years, but controllable. I don't know about non-steerable nose wheel MLG blowouts at high speed...but couldn't be much more of a problem or even less than steerable nose wheels. It seems steerable nose wheel MLG high speed pavement blowouts could lead to a greater chance of over control swerving; but may be incorrect. I know of someone (un-named) who uses a product called "Ride-On" in his airplane tires....seals instantly a tire tread penetration, tires rarely need air, and balances as well. Used in motorcycle tires, police/emergency vehicles, off-road and heavy duty commercial equipment for the same purpose. I wish the product was STC approved. Should be, it could save a lot of damage and lives perhaps?
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Re: DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by rwtucker »

Sorry Larry . . . I meant to ask Colin but your response re: tail draggers is helpful.

My sense is that a high speed MLG blowout on a DA40 is a potentially life threatening event. I can almost sense an immediate and sharp turn.

I know of a few such blowouts on PA28s and C182s and they scarcely departed the centerline. My uncle's C182 was shedding parts and pieces all over the the runway but he never got close to the edge.

Do you know how Ride-on behaves at 16,500 MSL?
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Re: DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by Colin »

I have the dubious distinction of having had more flat tires in Diamond airplanes than any other pilot.

After that delivery flight, I was always ready. The next one was on landing at Kansas City (KMKC). It is a wide runway, and I could tell as soon as the wheels were down what was happening. I used moderate right brake, the plane slowly drifted to the left side of the runway (wife: "Where are you going?") I did not depart and never felt out of control. It certainly didn't yank to the left, just pulled. Those landings with the entire family in the plane are super careful, dead on the numbers, long runway, stall horn squealing before the wheels kiss the concrete.

Next was back home after dropping Peter Marx in Van Nuys. On landing I had a flat nosewheel tire. He was with me on the uneventful landing in Van Nuys and the landing back at KSMO was a greaser, but I required a LOT of throttle to get off the runway. Then a tow.

Returning from the next crossing of the country we taxied out of the FBO at St. Louis (KSTL) and the plane started pulling right. The usual thorough pre-flight revealed nothing, so I have to assume we ran over something on the ramp or taxiway. The Keystone Cops routine of the mechanics was so horrible (they tried to charge $1,700 not including changing the tire or providing a tube) that I started carrying spare tubes, a jack and tools to do a change. I flew with two instructors to see if I was doing anything wrong on landing. They said I wasn't. My mechanic said maybe they needed to put a little more talc in there and I needed to watch the pressure a little more. I added a timer to the G1000 for that.

Landing at Iowa City with my son on a college tour I felt the pull to the left. It's a tiny un-towered field so I got the plane ALL the way to the left, then hopped out, pushed the tail down and swung the tail off the runway. In a pinch a crop duster could still use the runway.

I have had two flats in the DA42 since getting it. One at KBUR shutting down Burbank's crosswind runway. One at KFUL shutting down Fullerton's only runway for a moment. The latter was entirely my fault, landing a little fast with my brother and his son in the plane and trying to slow down a little too quickly. I had plenty of runway, plenty of time, but for some reason my left foot hit the brake a little hard. That's the only time I've seen the flat spot people have talked about, and I somehow managed to lock the wheel for long enough to go right through the tire and tube all at once.

Another landing clinic with instructors out of Angel City. They said I was doing fine, not doing anything wrong.

I would like runflat tires. And better brakes. An instructor that has 600hrs in the DA42 said, "Yeah, I don't know why, they put the little kid wheels on there, but the big boy brakes. Not a good combination."
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Re: DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by Colin »

Oh. I guess I can answer your question. I had no real problem handling the flat (although none of them were "blowouts") with either the castering or steerable nosewheel.
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Re: DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by rwtucker »

I had one "slowout" that was managable but I didn't become fully aware of it until I was under 30 kts. I'm not sure the outcome would have been the same had it been a real blow out. Given the risks with non-steerable nosewheels, you would think that some STC consideration would be given to runflat tires.
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Re: DA40 Departs Runway on Landing - No fatalities

Post by Rich »

If you watch this FAA site as I do, you'll see all types of planes running off the side of the runway - takeoff, landing, etc. Steerable nose wheel or not. Pretty much every single day.
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