Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

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Rich
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by Rich »

Sandy, your installation description includes a particular aircraft setup. I was talking about the more general aircraft installation. Most commonly the transponder is a mode C sitting in the instrument panel.

And I just recalled there is also a bunch of information in the ADS-B message that is not contained even in the Mode S output, such as dimensions of the aircraft and location of the position source. So configuration is required in any case.
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by rwtucker »

Sandy wrote:@rwtucker... The 2020 mandate is only fo ADS-B Out, so the iPad, which provides ADS-B In, is not required.
Sandy, When I said "required" I was referring to the practical issue that applies to many of us; i.e., we want to secure the full pilot-side benefits of ADS-B, we don't want to lose our expensive investment in the Ryan/Avidyne system, and we want our G1000 MFD to continue to be the MFD (we don't want to rely on an unreliable iPad IOS to round out the flow of available cockpit data). We have a lot of Class G in my area and many backcountry pilots face no requirement and have no intention of adding ADS-B to their aircraft. I fly in the mountain corridors with these pilots and find that the Ryan/Avidyne traffic system adds exclusive safety. At the same time, I also fly to PHX, SFO, etc. where I will benefit from the ADS-B display with little or no benefit added by the Ryan/Avidyne traffic system. All things considered, it does not seem unreasonable to ask that Diamond release a software upgrade to display both sources of traffic data and the ADS-B Wx on the MFD.
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by Rich »

Rob, I see the Avidyne is supposedly upgradeable to handle ADS-B in also. Is that somehow incompatible with the G1000 MFD?

Rob's point about not wanting to obsolete a considerable investment he already has in TCAS is a valid one. But considering these cases:

A. ADS-B out aircraft. By regulation and design, these units are to be on all the time, But they can be turned off, either by ignorance of regulations or in the interest of secrecy or obstinance.

B. Mode A/C aircraft who choose to have their transponders on all the time. Regulation does not require this, and Mode C is required now in all the airspace to require ADS-B in 2020.

C. Mode A/C aircraft who routinely fly with the equipment turned off. I see this all the time - guys arriving in Mode C veil airspace with the transponder turned off. So it's obvious that out in the more remote Class G airspace this is pretty common.

D. Aircraft (and drones, etc.) with no operable transponder or ADS-B, legal or otherwise.

The percentages of aircraft in each population are shifting all the time and vary considerably with regions of the country. If I had a plane with TCAS I wouldn’t want it made obsolete. But I certainly wouldn’t, today, go to the expense of adding it, as it only improves detection of Case B outside of an area of coverage of either radar coverage or ADS-B tower availability. And marginally for Mode A of case B (yes, they’re still out there). And you still have to look at the windows in any case.

I'm completely comfortable using FF/Stratus on iPad for displaying traffic (and lots of other uses, like backup AHRS with synth. vision, as well as numerous non-aviation uses). 7 years of use and counting (this predates Stratus, of course) without failure. I do fly with 2 of them, as my wife has one also for her own peace of mind.
Last edited by Rich on Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by ricksigler »

Garmin's description. Works with Mode A/C and I'm sure S.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/540911
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by Rich »

ricksigler wrote:Garmin's description. Works with Mode A/C and I'm sure S.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/540911
So for Mode A/C transponders your ICAO code (aka N-number for US) also needs to be configured in the GDL-82.
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by rwtucker »

Rich,

I'm looking into the Avidyne option but I seem to recall CFIDave thinking it would not provide a comlete solution for us either. Maybe that has changed.

For me, the smaller part is not wanting to lose the TCAS investment. The bigger part is not wanting to lose TCAS. I have had conversations with pilots around here and it seems clear that I will be less safe in this 'G' mountain space if I lose TCAS. Granted, a lot of the SuperCub, etc. drivers never had TCAS but I have grown to appreciate the significant measure of safety it adds (and they do run into each other occasionally in ways that TCAS would have prevented). I would say that 90% of my mountain traffic "sightings" are TCAS first, visual second and sometimes never.

I recall that CFIDave thought it could be done via a laptop configuration. It would seem that a software update could simplify that further.
Re: ADS-B Options for WAAS G1000 with TAS 600
Postby Chris » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:10 am
dgger wrote:
CFIDave wrote:
With either GTX345R installation, you can still keep your existing Avidyne TAS600 unit, and the G1000 should be able to correlate TAS600 transponder targets with GTX345R ADS-B IN targets.

Are you sure that is indeed the case? I remember eyeing a similar setup and was told that the G1000 would only accept a single traffic source. In my case I was interested in adding a Powerflarm, which would add, well, FLARM, as well as ADS-B. However, as far as the TAS600 and the Powerflarm was concerned is was either or.

I've heard this from multiple sources, including two avionics shops, so I believe Dave is correct. It's not clear to me if the correlation is done in the G1000 or in the GTX-345R.
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by Rich »

I think hooking up a GDL-82 to a Mode A transponder to comply with the mandate would be worthless, though it might still provide value outside the mandate. Can you guess why?

Answer to this quiz tomorrow :)
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by CFIDave »

OK, just to clarify:
If you install a new Garmin GTX345R transponder in your G1000 DA40, the functionality of your pre-existing Avidyne TAS 600 active traffic unit is preserved. The GTX345R will correlate targets so that if the same aircraft is picked up via its transponder squawk -AND- via ADS-B IN (ground station or directly air-air), only a single target will be displayed on your MFD (and PFD with SVT).
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by Colin »

(In my experience the targets will separate sometimes, the correlation is not as sharp as you might hope. Flying around Seattle a lot of the seaplane traffic is low level and that seems to be difficult for their algorithms. So I get two targets for the Kenmore planes, which makes it look like there's going to be a midair on my MFD. Then the targets sometimes merge and I get just the ADS-B.)
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Re: Garmin Announcement re ADS-B

Post by CFIDave »

As for ever upgrading your Avidyne TAS 600 (technically to a "605A" model) for ADS-B IN:

Every year at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh I walk into the Avidyne booth and ask when the promised Avidyne ADS-B upgrade will become available for the TAS 600 family of products and I get the same answer: "soon." I've been getting this same answer for at least the past 6 years, and I fully expect to hear the same answer when I ask the question next week in Oshkosh. Even though the upgraded "A" hardware has been shipping for the past few years, the software is never ready.

At this point, I think Avidyne has missed its opportunity with its active traffic product. Even if the TAS product family ever includes ADS-B IN, it will only be able to receive the single-band of 1090 MHz Extended Squitter directly, and will be dependent on ADS-B ground stations (technically "ADS-R") to relay info about UAT traffic targets. It's not "dual band" 1090ES/UAT.

In contrast, the Garmin GTX345R transponder is dual band, eliminating dependence on ADS-B ground stations for receipt of traffic information about UAT equipped planes. The GTX345R can receive ADS-R, useful for ground station relay of information about non-ADS-B aircraft that are transponder-only, but many of these planes will go away after 2020 in the US. And the GTX345R can also wirelessly (via Bluetooth) send traffic info to your iPad running Foreflight or Garmin Pilot.

With the GTX345R now standard on new G1000 Diamonds in North America, we no longer recommend that clients here order the Avidyne TAS unit for their new aircraft. (For Europe and much of the rest of the world without an ADS-B mandate or ground relay stations, a TAS unit may still provide considerable value.)
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