ADS-B Install Experience

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rwtucker
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by rwtucker »

I'm sorry for not providing feedback. I thought I came across your draft too late. I thought the letter was excellent. I especially liked the fact that you provided a tiered set of options to consider. My suggestions below are nothing more than a few marginal ideas that come to mind.

- In the first paragraph, you might acknowledge the merit of ADS-B and note that the primary beneficiary is commercial aviation: "While ADS-B is part of a significant step forward in the safe and efficient control of aviation flights, primary those of commercial aviation, it nonetheless creates a significant financial burden . . ."

- Related to the above idea, you might focus your question about benefits for small GA. I don't think anyone questions the benefits of ADS-B as an essential part of NextGen commercial control which provides for more efficient ATC, which is also claimed to be safer when fully implemented. I think the claim to increased efficiency is well documented on the face of it. The claim of increased safety when flying under the reduced clearance distances is, as you say, yet to be proven. A problem in raising this discussion is that ADS-B and its role in redesigned ATC are to some extent separate albeit closely related issues. You may run the risk of someone saying that the issues should be separated. So it goes.

- Finally, you might consider closing with a question that your representatives might answer for you. Do they intend to look into the issues you raise? Will they get back to you with their thinking? Can they refer you to another place that is concerned to have your input? And so on.

Great letter. I hope it has some impact. Having spend a few years working the Hill directly and many more leaving $5,000 checks on the desks of Senator's receptionists to buy lunch or 20 minutes of conversation, I concede that it may be tough to get a legislator who is not a pilot or close to a pilot to care about the plight of a few recreational pilots. On the other hand, it is worth a try and it may fit in with a legislator's larger agenda in some way that we cannot anticipate.
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RMarkSampson
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by RMarkSampson »

My '99 DA-20-C1 received her ADS-B solution last year. GDL-84 with integrated WAAS (Both GNS-430s were non-WAAS and the cost of converting them to WAAS in a VFR-only plane was a non-starter). GDL-84's GPS antenna was mounted on the bottom slide of the instrument cover, ADS-B antenna underneath. I did not spend a penny trying to get traffic to show on those little GNS-430 screens, a FlightStream 110 is used to blue-tooth the traffic and WX to my iPad running Foreflight (but can also push to Garmin Pilot on an android etc). Also displays on my iPhone that I suction cup to the canopy and puts it within a foot of my view. Installed a TSO'ed USB port (powers two devices) to keep all devices fully charged during flight. The GDL-84 also provides Aural Call-Outs via the comm system. A couple of fault lights tell me when the GDL-84 is not receiving GPS or is sensing an information fault.

Gulf Coast Avionics (GCA) in Lakeland, FL did the install. First quote was for a GDL-88 that would feed both GPS 430's after they were converted to WAAS, plus a bit of extra bling to interface with Sandel EHSI so 6CT could fly holding patterns. Quote was around 19K, 15K if I did not want all the bells and whistles - so I quickly became an expert on other solutions and was able to have them build the system I described above for a little over 7K.

Moral to my story - don't let the Avionics guys tell you what you need - or you will pay for that mistake. GCA did a nice job on the install and I'm a satisfied customer. I did have one problem with my GDL-84 about a month after the install - it needed to go back to the factory for repair. GCA stood behind their work - and worked with Garmin to get fixed. The fault light was my only indication in the cockpit that there was a problem - so I recommend everyone sporting their own ADS-B solution to occasionally use this FAA website to data-check your system after a flight
https://adsbperformance.faa.gov/PAPRRequest.aspx
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Sandy
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by Sandy »

I have a 2005 non-WAAS G1000 DA40. I had understood that my best/only ADS-B solution was the GTX-345R with WAAS, and I understood that that would give me traffic on the G1000, but not weather, so I would still be constrained to use my iPad with ForeFlight for ADS-B WX (and NexRad on the G1000). Is there also a GDL-84 or GDL-88 solution that I had not heard of? If so, does it require an STC?
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ricksigler
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by ricksigler »

Rob,

Thanks for the input. I will definitely consider some modification. I'll let everyone know when and if I hear back from my "representatives".

Rick
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ricksigler
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by ricksigler »

I modified the letter based on Rob's recommendations and added some info about the fleet. The letters are in the mail today. Here's a copy of the revised letter. Feel free to copy, paste and modify if you think it has any value for you.

"Date

Dear,

On May 28, 2010, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) published 14 CFR 91.225 wherein the FAA added to existing regulations “equipage requirements and performance standards for ADS–B Out avionics on aircraft operating in Classes A, B, and C airspace, as well as certain other specified classes of airspace within the U.S.” to provide at least ADS-B Out. While ADS-B is part of a significant step forward in the safe and efficient control of aviation flights, primary those of commercial aviation, it nonetheless creates a significant financial burden for all aircraft owners and especially to the General Aviation Fleet. Some aircraft owners will find the cost to comply with this mandate to equal one third to one half of the market value of their aircraft. According to an FAA report the active General Aviation fleet was estimated as 204,408 aircraft in 2014 (up 2.2 percent from 2013), with 23.3 million hours flown (up 1.7 percent from 2013).

I am a private pilot and own a 2007 Diamond Star DA40 and fly solely for pleasure. The Diamond Star DA40 is a small single engine, piston driven, four place airplane. My airplane is based at the Albuquerque International Airport (Class C airspace). The FAA has mandated through the regulation that as of January 1, 2020, I will no longer be able to fly my plane to and from the Albuquerque airport or any other class C or B airports or at 10,000 feet msl and above unless I equip my plane with additional avionics that will comply with the requirements of the regulation. The current prices for the upgrade according to pilot’s experience reported on the Diamond Pilots Forum, is anywhere from $8,000 to $11,000.

Based on a webinar I attended, the major impact of having an airplane equipped with ADS-B out, will be to change the current position update to Air Traffic Control to 4 seconds rather than the current 12 seconds. The FAA will argue that there are other benefits, but as of now they are unproven. I feel that forcing me and other general aviation pilots to spend $8,000 to $11,000 to provide an 8 second difference in position reporting is outrageous. I hope you will agree and will pursue appropriate actions to ease the burden on general aviation pilots and owners.

I would like to offer some possible solutions to this onerous burden that I hope you will consider.

1. Amend the regulation to exempt all aircraft with a maximum cruise speed of 250 knots or less from compliance. This would be a really simple solution that would keep the mandate for the faster and higher flying aircraft.
2. Amend the regulation to exempt all aircraft not flying in Class A airspace (18,000 feet and above) and/or Class B airspace (the busiest large airports).
3. Have the Federal Government reimburse the owners of the airplane for the cost of complying with the mandate. This would be a considerable expense, but in terms of the amount of money the Federal Government spends for other much less beneficial programs, it would be insignificant.
4. Ease the significant restrictions on the type of equipment that can be used to comply with the mandate so manufacturers will be able to provide equipment at a greatly reduced price with a corresponding reduction in the installation price.
5. Require compliance with the mandate for aircraft only produced after January 31, 1999. This would require manufacturers to include the equipment in newly produced aircraft and the buyers would be clearly aware of the cost of the mandate. This would allow for a transition to the ADS-B mandate over a number of years.

I’m sure there are other solutions that I have not thought of and would certainly appreciate any that you could propose that would help the General Aviation Fleet continue flying without incurring this onerous and unplanned expense.

Would you please inform me as to whether you intend to address this issue or whether my concerns should be directed elsewhere. Thank you very much for your consideration and service you provide to your constituents and our country."

Sincerely yours,
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by dafzero »

Sandy wrote:I have a 2005 non-WAAS G1000 DA40. I had understood that my best/only ADS-B solution was the GTX-345R with WAAS, and I understood that that would give me traffic on the G1000, but not weather, so I would still be constrained to use my iPad with ForeFlight for ADS-B WX (and NexRad on the G1000). Is there also a GDL-84 or GDL-88 solution that I had not heard of? If so, does it require an STC?
Hi Sandy,

I have an identical setup and have not heard of any solution other than the GTX-345R. If something appears, I'll let you know. Seems unlikely though. I also don't want to be the avionics shop's first install on a DA40. Everyone's experiences seem to vary widely (or wildly). I have a GDL69A installed so the weather feature doesn't matter to me very much.
David Bevan
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Asheville, NC
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by RMarkSampson »

My GDL-84 solution was specific to my non-WAAS GNS-430's. It really does matter for what you start with, for what solution works for you. Good luck and I hope to see your tail number track across my iPad soon.

Rick,
For the opinion column, ADS-B has been an outstanding resource in my cockpit. I did not have that opinion until I made the investment and started to fly with my ADS-B solution. I no longer hunt for traffic but track traffic. My eyes are still outside as ADS-B is not 100% (because traffic packages from the ground station are not 100%) but now I have solid intelligence. I also get aural call-outs for traffic - in numerous cases "bitch'en Betty" has been the first indication in my cockpit that squawked for a nearby aircraft.

What is 100% are two ADS-B planes talking to each other. So I am now a big advocate for EVERYONE making the ADS-B leap. I'm very glad I made the leap and tossed in the $$'s - now if everyone gets onboard, that will make my system that much more reliable. While I understand some aircraft values makes it a hard pill to swallow - our certified aircraft in our Diamond fleet are certainly worth the investment. We have all made the decision to buy/fly a certified instead of an experimental aircraft. It is the reason why we fork over the $$ to buy those pricy Diamond parts and not head to Autozone to fix our birds. So I hope that ADS-B solutions continue to grow and prices drop - and I strongly encourage my fellow Diamond flyers to meet or beat the 2020 mandate.

OK, dismounting my soap box now...
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by ricksigler »

Mark,

I understand your position and you make good points, but I've got TAS and XM weather (better than ADS-B weather). So, ADS-B does absolutely nothing for me except deplete my bank account of $8,000 to $11,000.

As a side note, I just read that the airlines state that they cannot meet the deadline, so expect an extension at the very least. Also, I found out that AOPA is strongly opposing the cost of the mandate (they support ADS-B) for the GA fleet and are lobbing Congress and the FAA to allow less expensive equipment.

Rick
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by waynemcc999 »

Rick, I understand and feel your pain on the $$$ depletion...

But from my experience, TAS is 50/50 at best in sensing nearby traffic (and even then, although TAS distance is reliable, bearing is correct only maybe 1 in 4 times).

With ADS-B Out we can expect 80%+ traffic coverage (and improving towards Jan-2020) plus always correct bearing/distance/speed/direction-vector.

Best regards,
Wayne
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shorton
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by shorton »

I've been flying DA40s with the Avidyne 600 TAS for a number of years in busy SoCal airspace. I remember thinking when I started flying with traffic information that I couldn't believe I ever felt safe without it.

Just in the past 6 months I've started flying with a couple friends who hook up their Stratus receiver so we can see ADS-B traffic on Foreflight when we fly together. Frankly, the quality difference between TAS and ADS-B is striking. Although I still appreciate TAS, it completely misses more traffic than I ever would have thought and its traffic usually appears much later, giving less time to visually acquire and react. The ADS-B target is also much more precise and stable, without the "bouncing" of the target from one side to the other as sometimes happens with TAS.

This experience has made me change my thinking on ADS-B. I previously assumed I would just upgrade the transponder to an extended squitter version right before 1/1/20 to comply with the mandate since I had TAS and I have XM weather. I had put off researching the es solution and I'm not sure if that actually works in the DA40. If so, that may be a very cost effective solution for many and with Stratus ($900) you can get traffic and weather if you want ADS-B in on your IPad. But when I fly alone I don't want to deal with the distraction of the IPad so I'm going to bite the bullet soon and get the GTX 345.

I for one have become an ADS-B fan.
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