ADS-B Install Experience

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kelson73
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by kelson73 »

I'm really interested in what the GA37 was installed in accordance with? This antenna would need a new connector hole of course but also an additional 2 aft screw holes as the Arinc 743 footprint of the GA37 is different than that of the original GA35. Was this just "done" or with some sort of specified or approved data, field approval 8110 etc? What I've seen when importing aircraft to Canada is essentially work was performed in accordance with Joe of Joe Blow Avionics and it's problematic.

The GPS splitter used didn't just split the signal it's also a powered amplifier. If anyone is interested I can dig up a part number but I think GPS Networking is the manufacturer. If Garmin used it on their equipment in their aircraft I would say it probably suffices and a separate antenna isn't necessarily required but to each their own. No choice for a non WAAS aircraft but a new antenna anyway. I wouldn't hold your breath on new DA40 software either unfortunately.
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by kelson73 »

The GTX 33 is a mode A/C & S transponder. I've never installed a GDL82 but something sounds strange here. You would still need a WAAS antenna though and would just be UAT ADS-B out not in. GDL84/88's with GTX33s works okay.

A GTX335R w/internal WAAS would be a much simpler upgrade to meet the mandate I would say, 1090ES out only. I say that because it's pretty straight forward to convert a GTX 33 to a 335 R in the G1000 mounting rack utilizing all existing transponder wiring and coax then running new power wires and finding a mounting location for other boxes etc.
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by kelson73 »

Greg your being fed stories. I've installed TAS 600 with GTX345R in G1000 systems. The wiring all has to be there and the configuration is critical. DA40 software limits what you can see on the MFD but having active and ADS-B traffic is quite doable in your aircraft. I may have a schematic and configuration files if you're interested? I would love to do this for you in person too! I spent 14 weeks down under in 2014 while travelling for the year and it was my favourite place. It reminded me of Canada but nicer weather in my opinion :) nice friendly people.
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by kelson73 »

Jean the Lynx is a nice system but with the traffic option it can be tricky finding real estate on the top of smaller aircraft for its large antenna. The Lynx also needs it's own WAAS antenna regardless if a capable position source is on board. I've never installed one with G1000 and would have research it's compatibility but a Garmin panel mount would just be configured as interfaced to a Skywatch. Have a look at a NY164 traffic antenna, it's not really compatible with the Diamonds...
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by kelson73 »

There are a lot of posts on this ADS-B thread! I just realized this and the more I look I see a lot of the info I've mentioned already here, my apologies. One last thing, in general the G1000 ADS-B/weather info being displayed is more about GDU software (MFD/PFD) not WAAS/non WAAS equipped machines. As far as I know the latest DA40 software for several years now has been .22 for non WAAS and .23 for WAAS. What would be great is DA40Nxi!
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by pietromarx »

Guys ... Here's the basic flowchart (in words) insofar as I understand it:

1. It doesn't matter if you have a G1000 with or without WAAS as the G1000 cannot be a location source with the current software to the GTX 345R.

2a. If you have a G1000 w/ GDL-69/69A: replace the XM antenna with a GA-37 and put the GPS source to the GTX-345R.

2b. If you have a G1000 w/o GDL-69/69A: add a new WAAS GPS antenna (GA-35?) inside the empennage.

3. If you have a TAS-600 (all forms of G1000) then route the traffic data through the GTX-345R.

Below is a picture of my DA-40 with the work being done. The GTX-345R is the frontmost unit in the rack with the writing "right side up." The antenna is hidden above the TAS-600 in the very rear of the empennage behind the metal ground layer.
empennage.jpg
Here is a picture of LA traffic from within the hanger. It is wildly more than what comes through S/A/C transponders.
IMG_8534.jpg
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by kelson73 »

Thanks pietromarx pictures are always helpful,

1. Correct for a DA40
2. a & b Replacing the GA55 XM with a GA37 or installing a new GA35 may work but does not meet the criteria of having a 7.5" radius ground plane called out in Garmin's STC nor does it say you can install the antenna internally. Again may work but not an approved installation via Garmin antenna or GTX STC.
3. Correct, the GTX345R becomes the "hub" for traffic and generates all the traffic alerts.

A mode A/C/S transponder does not provide any traffic information to the pilot. A GTX33 with TIS provides some alerts in if installed this way but in some regions of the US only.

Cheers,
Kristopher
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by pietromarx »

So I wrote a few irritated replies to your (Kristopher) post, but decided not to feed the flames.

I'm curious, though, as to what on basis you are responding to my posts: do you have a DA40? Are you an A&P? Do you have some professional basis for your comments (legal or engineering)? I'm finding your replies differing from the specific information provided by the equipment providers and installers. Please provide some backup to what makes you approve and disapprove.

With regards to transponders, TIS, TAS, and ADS-B, my statement stands. The information flow is from A/C/S transponder to ground radar and/or TAS to the G1000 via TIS (Mode S) or via TAS (RS422/RS232/ethernet). TIS is quite common in the US; in my old airplanes with Mode S transponders and without TAS I rarely saw a congested airspace without TIS anywhere in the nation.
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by pietromarx »

So the shop has finished the installation. The biggest issue has been the routing of the data through the arcane configuration systems of the G1000, GTX345R, and TAS600. Every time I see the config pages on a G1000 I realize just how much complexity is buried beneath the pilot's UI.
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Re: ADS-B Install Experience

Post by kelson73 »

Disclaimer. I'm an avionics engineer that was at Diamond for a about 10 years. I worked with Garmin certifying the G1000 system and their DA40 G1000 STC. Canada does not have the A&P designation but I do hold an AME licence so proceed with caution.

My "comment" is really trying to get to the bottom of a question I would like answered. I would like to know how others are installing the required WAAS antenna on a DA40 for the GTX 3X5 installs.

From a professional, legal and engineering side, Garmin's FAA GTX series Part 23 STC SA01714WI and Garmin's AML STC Installation manual 190-00734-10 Rev 8 is what I need to comply with for installing the GTX series in a DA40. Also Transport Canada's SA15-64 familiarization as a DA40 here is Canadian registered and has a European Type Design. This Approved Data does not cover installing an antenna into an aircraft with composite skin. Garmin’s Antenna STC SA02018SE-D and Installation Manual 190-01284-00 Rev D covers GA35, GA36, GA37, GA55 and GA55A antenna installations but again not on composite skins nor installing them internally. It does however depict the size of ground plane for these antennas which is a 4.0” radius for XM and 7.5” for GPS/WAAS Figure 2-5 on Page 2-9.
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