Optimal landing speed

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Rick
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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Rick »

Antoine wrote:(I do not like the idea of the tail wind landing.)
I agree with Antoine - your runway 20 only has a 1.5% downslope, so it wouldn't take much of a tailwind on 02 before I would choose the slight downslope on 20 over the tailwind. Remember a 5 kt tailwind vs. 5 kt headwind changes your ground (touchdown) speed by 10 kts, which is pretty significant. Don't make any change to your approach speed though, either way - you still do the same thing, it just looks and feels different!
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Steve
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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Steve »

My airport has a similar slope (1.4%) on its single 3000x40 foot runway. I almost always try to land into the headwind component (most of the wind is usually a crosswind). In calm wind, I'll takeoff downhill and land uphill.

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Rich
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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Rich »

And the best-laid-plans, etc. Two days ago being a good example. Now that I routinely deal with 5K DA and almost-always "interesting" air, I have a kind of zen approach. "I am a leaf on the wind" to quote Wash (Serenity, 2005).

Two days ago was good example: 5200 ft. DA. Winds reported by AWOS interesting but not bad, but the windsocks apparently didn't get the memo on direction or speed. I took the plane once around the pattern to warm up the oil for changing. Weight was about 2,000 lbs. Had final nailed at about 60 knots - short final suddenly airspeed jumped to about 70 knots, just waited for it - at about 20 ft. over the threshold, airspeed suddenly dropped right back down to 60. Just completed normal flare and nice touchdown.

At this weight in really stable weather at other airports I've been known to come over the threshold at ~55 knots. No real payoff at Prineville for really short landings, the first turnoff being about 2200 ft. down the runway.
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Colin
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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Colin »

That's great to hear, Tony.
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tonylee
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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by tonylee »

I wanted to report that things are going very well. I did 6 landings yesterday which all went very well. My comfort level is back to where it needs to be. No longer having anxiety on final. In fact I was looking admiring the view on base as I turned to final and thought how awesome the view is from there. Most people don't get to see the world like we do. It's nice to be calm, relaxed and confident rather than riddled with fear. I appreciate all of the comments from this site. It's great to be part of a supportive community.
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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Antoine »

Well done !
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Tim M
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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Tim M »

One of the best lessons I've had was how to do the power off 180 commercial landing maneuver, even though I was not training for a CPL. At TPA, abeam the numbers, one notch of flaps, 80kts, power to idle. From that point on it's all outside perspective. As long as the sight picture remains as expected the airspeed takes care of itself. When making the runway is assured, landing flaps go in. Over the threshold until touchdown it becomes a battle for the centerline with eyes focused at the far end of the runway. If I do it right I never see the actual touchdown because my eyes are focused on the far end of the runway.

Another confidence building exercise is a high speed pass with takeoff flaps flying as close to the runway as possible without touching. This one helps develop the right sight picture for knowing when to stop the pitch up in the flare and subsequent focus on the centerline maintenance.

I know this is not a direct response to the question about the "best speed" because as others have pointed out, there's a lot more to greasing the landing than that one parameter. After learning the 180 maneuver and breaking my addiction to airspeed I was able to rediscover the visual, audio, and seat of the pants feel of a good landing.

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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by rwtucker »

Landings seem to occupy a special place in aviation and in our minds. Lately, I have been flying an Eclipse 500 with a former USAF B1 safety instructor who also flew missions in the Middle East. His landings are textbook perfect but he notes that the trailing landing gear makes landings look better than they otherwise would. In addition to flying the Eclipse professionally, he now flies a Commanche. More than once he said that the Commanche was the most difficult aircraft to land well he has ever flown. I haven't flown as many aircraft as the Colonel but the DA40 is the easiest to land of those I have flown. Even so, I still manage to make less than a smooth landing half of the time.
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LTek1
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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by LTek1 »

Tim M wrote:One of the best lessons I've had was how to do the power off 180 commercial landing maneuver, even though I was not training for a CPL.
I've been working on these occasionally too, and was initially *really* surprised at the sink rate. In retrospect, I shouldn't have been, given the power I tend to carry in to my landings.

The other thing that I've adjusted - that is probably obvious to most of you but which got in to my muscle memory wrong - is taking my base turn at 45 degrees off from the *touchdown point* instead of the end of the runway. That has helped a lot from dragging my butt over the fence, and required less power, and helped with the sink rate when I ran out of energy.

All of this came together by doing it power-off and getting a better feel for the real energy dissipation from downwind to touchdown. Great advice.
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Rich
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Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Rich »

It's been a long time, but I don't recall Comanches as being a challenge. (I flew a 250 and a 260 building time for my commercial.) They do have a rep, I've read, but I think it comes from the nose gear hanging a bit low with the gear extended and there seems to be a tendency to one-point it. But I simply recall no problems landing. Maybe heavily loaded, but VA rules precluded me from carrying anyone while on a training flight as PIC.

There seems to be some dream of a magic procedure to follow. There isn't one. The real world throws out all kinds of wrinkles. Here's one: Flying in KAWO (Arlington, WA) for the yearly fly-in, you can expect to be cleared to land on the first or second half of runway 16 (or 34) and you need adjust your approach accordingly.

And another: When a blimp was out giving rides at KPAE and parked itself right where a normal turn to base would be.

Or: When the guy ahead of you doing a stop-and-go overlooks the last part and while on final you figure out a way to land even shorter than you had planned (channeling Wolfgang Langewiesche :) ).
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