Optimal landing speed

Any DA40 related topics

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
pietromarx
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
First Name: Peter
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: NZZZ
Airports: KWHP
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 156 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by pietromarx »

tonylee wrote: I want to thank Antoine for this post. I have not posted in a while and have not been flying much in past couple of years. I had a prop strike last year on landing. I porpoised the landing which led to a lot of anxiety about the plane. While the plane was being fixed and engine inspected I thought about selling the plane and ending my flying for good. I picked up the plane with my CFI and practiced several landings. None of which were good. I was so scared that my CFI flew the plane back with me to my airport then I drove him 2hrs back to the first airport. I have had this plane since 2011 so it not like any of it is new to me. I continued to practice landings with my CFI but not progressing like I hoped. I used to land the plane fine a couple of years ago but after the accident my anxiety was taking over and I would flare too high and kept dropping the plane out of the sky and bouncing down the runway. I was getting very frustrated over the situation and my CFI wasn’t really great at flying a DA40 and when he tried landing the plane, he bounced it also. I went back and read this thread last week and it clicked. I did exactly what Antoine said and I allowed myself to let the plane land down the runway on it’s own rather than flaring too much and dropping the plane. I performed 6 beautiful landings today even with a bit of crosswind and settled down my anxiety. I am no longer afraid of my own plane and am very grateful for this advice.
If I could make a suggestion it would be to get some time, too, in gliders. You'll get so very good on landings that they become entirely instinctual. I porpoised early on in one, fixed it, and pulled a perfect landing out of it.

Similarly, time in a Citabria or Decathlon (a tail-dragger) practicing landings is quite a skill-builder. To get my sign-off, I had to land on one wheel, keep it rolling down the runway on that wheel, take off, come back to do it on the other wheel, then do a wheel landing, and then finally do a full stall landing. I will tell you that the experience was more confidence-building than anything else I've done in general aviation.
User avatar
ThomasD
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:53 pm
First Name: ThomasD
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N215DS
Airports: EGGD
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by ThomasD »

I go with the 70kts over the fence heavy, 65kts if light and aim for the stall warner starting as I get to the threshold.

One thing I find though: key for me is to be _very_ gentle and very gradual pulling the stick back when approaching the flare, otherwise I end up ballooning [which may indicate I am a bit fast?].

Tom
User avatar
Steve
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1953
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:23 am
First Name: Steve
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N432SC
Airports: 1T7
Has thanked: 81 times
Been thanked: 493 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Steve »

Tony:

Glad you're back (and back in the air). I've had my DA40 for 17 years, and I still take care to not carry any extra speed on final (unless there is a significant gust component to the wind). I actually write down my final approach speed based on anticipated landing weight and brief it (often to myself). My landings are usually quite good (heard but not felt), but when one isn't, it is almost always because my speed control on short final was less than optimal.

Steve
User avatar
rwtucker
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1283
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:24 pm
First Name: Rob
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N831BA
Airports: KFFZ KEUL
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 110 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by rwtucker »

When I look back on the greasers that made me look like I knew what I was doing, virtually all of them were at near max weight or at night. Has anyone else seen this tendency in landing the DA40? Thinking about night landings in other aircraft, they have not been any more liklely to be good or bad than day landings.
User avatar
curts63
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:49 pm
First Name: Curt
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N215CS
Airports: 22N
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by curts63 »

I am no expert and certainly a low time pilot. My experience has been to cross the numbers around 65 and "gently" pull back on the stick to ease my descent. The plane more or less flies down the runway and as it loses speed, I keep pulling back on the stick to hold if off the ground. It seems to settle onto the ground easy and with the nose just higher than the mains.

Gently is the key. Even the slightest jerk on the stick puts the plane in a climb attitude, then falls to the ground or porpoises. IF you hit a little hard, just keep slight back pressure on the stick, let it fly a little until it settles. Subtle movements keep you more stable. Relax, fly the plane. I only use my two fingers and thumb, this helped me to stop over controlling the plane.

Curt
Antoine
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm
First Name: Antoine
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N121AG
Airports: LSGG
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Antoine »

Tony: thank you... I am embarrassed... glad my advice helped you. As to porpoise/prop strike, for heaven's sake... it happens to ALL of us. I even managed to do it with my 2 Ton Extra 400... (just the porpoise)
In a Cirrus, you ( or I) will break the nose gear strut...
Be humble, that's ok, but don't give up. Mistakes happen, we just need to learn. watch Top Gun again...
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Rich »

April 30, 1977, a day that will live in infamy. 'Twas not me but a student of mine on her first solo cross-country. Upon arriving back at our home airport (Idaho Falls, ID - KIDA) she panicked upon landing hot and high in my Cessna 150 on what was then runway 16 (now 15), trying to force it down. The important thing is she wasn't hurt.

Herewith the results, captured for eternity by another student of mine:
2623J.jpg
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
tonylee
1 Diamond Member
1 Diamond Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:06 pm
First Name: tony
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N836DS
Airports: M20
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by tonylee »

Practiced landings again today. Four out of five good landings. The biggest thing was getting over the fear again. Even when I had too much power and floated too much it was a lot better knowing I wasn’t going to bounce the plane. My home air strip is on a declining hill 20 which is where I porpoised. I am taking the advice of friend who states that he lands 02 no matter what the wind does. Today I had tail wind which goes against everything I was taught but I managed fine. For a while I felt like I did when I was first learning and couldn’t get over the fear of landing. I would panick and jerk the stick back causing a climb and drop. Now I am able to slowly pull back knowing gravity will eventually bring the plane down. I admit I am floating more than I should but it’s just fine tuning from here.
Antoine
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm
First Name: Antoine
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N121AG
Airports: LSGG
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Antoine »

That's good Tony. Practice, practice practice. No need to be afraid.
(I do not like the idea of the tail wind landing.)

I have another suggestion for you: make a few deliberate go arounds AFTER touchdown and get a sense of how quickly the plane gets back to flying once you decide you don't like what is happening.
Then you will know all it takes is to slam the throttle forward to end anything fishy and how quickly your plane will be flying again.
It is very good that you continue being outspoken about your incident - you are obviously shocked and need to get that poison out... hopefully by now you know it is a relatively common event.

As to pulling back, we need to keep in mind that it takes a conscious effort to pull back straight.
The motion of our wrist is disturbed by our abdomen. This will cause a slight left bank which can then turn into pilot induced oscillation.
Be aware of that and consciously draw a straight backward line with the stick. It is also a great idea to only grab the stick with 2-3 fingers ( true during 99% of flight time in this type)
Why not take the plane to some quiet place with a long runway, get a good instructor on board and fly low n slow to get fully acquainted?

Rich: hilarious! :) poor girl...
User avatar
Lou
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:39 pm
First Name: Louis
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: CGXLO
Airports: CZVL
Has thanked: 118 times
Been thanked: 115 times

Re: Optimal landing speed

Post by Lou »

Here is another suggestion: don't think about how much to move the stick, just watch what the outside world is doing and adjust to that picture. This is especially true in cross-wind landings. When we think about moving the stick or pedals 'this much' we almost always over or under control.
Post Reply