Non-WAAS G1000 -- ADS-B Future

[Scotsman58]

My 40 is a 2005 with a non-WAAS G1000 and KAP 140. (When I was researching my purchase, the price differential for an '08 with similar hours, WAAS and the GFC 700 was in the $65 to $70k ballpark -- given that my mission would only include training for my IFR and light/conservative IFR thereafter, that differential wasn't worth it to me -- and purely from a mission point of view, that continues to the case.)

However, I'm getting concerned that ADS-B compliance may force me to a WAAS upgrade, which I gather would likely cost me $20-25k plus before even addressing ADS-B capability. If that is going to be the case, I would probably rather explore trading up to newer and getting the GFC 700, TOGA switch, active traffic, upgraded software, etc.

This month's Plane & Pilot has an article on ADS-B for factory glass panels that suggests that those with non-WAAS G1000s who don't feel that they need an integrated ADS-B solution may be able to opt for a stand-alone UAT with its own GPS.

Does anyone know whether such an option is likely to be available for those of us in the non-WAAS boat?

[BRS]

I spoke with Freeflight a few weeks ago. They said they had a solution for the non-waas G1000 and the we should expect an announcement mid December. So I'm going to hang on for another month or so to see what transpires.

[rwtucker]

If you haven't already done so, also talk with Bill Moffitt at NavWorx as well. Bill and his wife (both engineers) own the company and they fly a DA40. Bill Moffitt, NavWorx Incorporated, 888-628-9679, Email: <BillMoffitt@ N_____x.com> Website: http://www.NavWorx.com.

Both Bill of NavWorx and Doug Campbell of FreeFlight delivered presentations and showcased their products at our McCall Fly-In this past summer. They are both great guys representing good products. You may want to talk with Bill about some of the less visible technical features of various models on the market. There are differences in how the squawk is copied from the transponder to the outboard ADS-B unit. Not surprisingly, Garmin holds what is probably the best patent on the technical hand-off but patents on the aftermarket competitors vary in methods. With some products you have to monitor the hand-off and re-enter it manually (not necessarily easy) if it fails.

[Scotsman58]

Thanks, guys -- I will certainly keep an eye out for solutions from NavWorx or Freeflight.

My (admittedly casual) research indicates that Garmin is offering two ADS-B units that do or can incorporate an internal WAAS GPS receiver -- the GDL-88 and GDL-84. Garmin seems to be working on a GDL-88/G1000 interface, but I believe that any such solution would have to be blessed by both Garmin and Diamond. But I believe that in theory, either of these units could also be used as standalone solutions, broadcasting ADS-B "out" information and providing ADS-B "in" information via wifi or bluetooth to an Ipad. Obviously, even a standalone system has to solve some issues. As one of you points out, it should be able to copy the squawk from the existing transponder (but apparently Garmin has this figured out). I assume it needs to be covered by a STC. It involves hardware that has to be installed somewhere (not too much room in a DA40). And it needs exterior antennas -- always an issue in a composite aircraft.

I really wish that Diamond would communicate to existing owners what it is doing in this area. Perhaps they are planning to, but the silence is frustrating.

[rwtucker]

As one of you points out, it should be able to copy the squawk from the existing transponder (but apparently Garmin has this figured out). I assume it needs to be covered by a STC. It involves hardware that has to be installed somewhere (not too much room in a DA40). And it needs exterior antennas -- always an issue in a composite aircraft.

AFAIK John, all of the aftermarket units copy the squawk to the ADS-B Out unit; some do it better (or with more certainty or reliably) than others. I don't know if this is an insignificant difference or if some fail often enough to be a problem, especially of you are having to re-copy in a busy IFR transition. Bill would know. There are some other patent issues as well. If Garmin/Diamond does not solve for us soon, I'm going to an aftermarket unit myself, using my iPad. I like my ADS-B In and am getting comfortable partially bypassing the G-1000 functions.

[jd4727]

I too have a non-waas G1000 DA-40. Looking at the Navworx site their ADS600-B transceiver ($1,999) is currently AML STC'd for the DA-40. Neither the Freeflight transmitter or transceiver options are STC'd for the DA-40 according to the FAA STC database at this time.

The NAVWORX solution appears less packaged than freeflight (you have to buy antennas and wireless separately) but still looks to be less costly overall for in&out and it is approved for installation via STC today. I see on NAVWORX site through the ARINC option it might interface with the G1000 MFD. Intriguing but I might opt for a wireless IPAD interface for simplicity and viewing ease.

In summary - basically it looks like I can install a NAVWORX ADS-B in&out solution today for something less than $3k in parts plus installation labor? Am I missing anything here? If true that is pretty good news, and for us happy with our pre-waas G1000 owners I am wondering why I might wait around for Diamond and Garmin to let us in on what so far seems to be a closely held state secret?

Hope I am reading this correctly...pointing out anything I am missing would be appreciated.

[Tim H]

I also have a non-WAAS G1000 DA-40. I believe Garmin / Diamond will have a solution for us in time to meet the ADS-B mandate (and am holding out for such a solution).

Does anyone know how many of us (non-WAAS G1000 DA-40's) are out there?

Tim

[smoss]

not sure when G1000 was added, I think start of 2006, and WAAS was added after the change from XL to XLS which was the end of 2007. So at a minimum, 2 years of DA40's. I as well am holding out for a hopeful Garmin solution. No real rush at the moment, and surely don't want to be one of the first few folks drilling new antenna holes in my plane. Of note, the NAVWORX documentation has extremely stringent requirements for where its 2 separate antennas must go, with the one on the bottom being at least 5 feet from any transponder or TCAS antenna--which would put it in the tail for me!

[DavidS]

I as well am holding out for a hopeful Garmin solution. No real rush at the moment, and surely don't want to be one of the first few folks drilling new antenna holes in my plane.

I'm of the opinion that this (waiting), really, is what everyone should be doing. Making a decision before all of the information is available seems hasty given that there's still (just over) four years until the deadline.

[pqpigg]

On the number of non-WAAS, add 2005 to the list. I have serial number 532 and I recall it was signed off from factory in March 2005.