Need help on charging the battery??

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rwtucker
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by rwtucker »

Good idea Rick. One would assume that Schauer was smart enough to ground the small pin per specs . . . but who knows. Still, the charger would only need to provide two wires from the unit to the APU plug. The negative lead connects to both the large and small ground pin.

Back when I was charging/desulphating this way, I used the common "yellow" APU plug http://www.skygeek.com/plug-and-play-11 ... apter.html. All I had to do was pulse 24 VDC on the two plug pins while my charger was connected to the same two pins. The relay tripped and sustained until I disconnected the plug on the next flight. It will trip off if you have a temporary power outage.
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Lou
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by Lou »

I had an email exchange with Scott at Schauer last February - he offered to adjust the float voltage for my JAC2024H to the correct spec for Concorde Batteries. I haven't followed up but with winter approaching does anyone know what the correct spec is? Also, will the Schauer charger desulphinate? Concorde said to just buy the Battery Minder, and maybe that is the better idea. Can't decide what to do. Thoughts.
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rwtucker
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by rwtucker »

Funny, the exact float voltages used to be on Concorde's website. I could not find them today. I know that it is temperature dependent curve and the differences are pretty large.

When looking for the float voltage, I came across a couple of interesting links.

http://www.chargingchargers.com/tutoria ... arger.html
Points out a few interesting facts, including that you should not charge at more than 20% of the AH capacity of an AGM battery and should limit charging temps to 100 degrees. This is relevant when you run your battery down on a start and then run up too quickly before giving it a chance to come up to voltage at low current. Also, given the AH capacity of our batteries, a charger capacity of ~4 amps is all you need.

http://support.rollsbattery.com/support ... m-charging
Contains a chart showing float voltage by temperature. Not Concorde but illustrative.

As I mentioned on another post, I have both the old GA 24 volt BatteryMinder and the Concorde specific 24 volt BatteryMinder. I cannot reliably measure a difference in their float voltages. Both of my BatteryMinders came with temperature compensating probes. I have seen them listed as optional now.

BTW: Concorde recommends an APU voltage limited to 28.5 to prevent damaging the battery during ground testing.

The Schauer does not de-sulphate.
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by Lou »

Thanks - good info. A good site I used to use back when I was flying RC planes is http://batteryuniversity.com/. I'll check that too. But I am leaning towards getting the latest Battery Minder and just using the Schauer as an APU, which is why I bought it in the first place.
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by honda »

rwtucker wrote:As for the hard wiring position of your mechanics, I'm not sure I agree but other DAN members may have more insight into that issue.

This said, it might be easier to remedy the problem on the side of the Schauer than the Diamond. All you need to make the APU connection "live" is for the charger to deliver 24 volts for a fraction of a second. If I had a schematic for your charger, I could likely suggest how you or your mechanic could add a simple push-button momentary switch that would do that. Your procedure would then be: (1) plug the Schauer APU plug into the Diamond APU, (2) set the switches correctly on the Schauer and then plug it into 117 VAC, (3) momentarily press a button you would have mounted in a convenient place on the Schauer. You would hear the Diamond relay click and you would remain connected so long as the Schauer remained powered up and the APU connection was not interrupted. For the price, Schauer should have provided that capability in its charger.

A long shot: Schauer's voltage sensing system (that's what is causing the problem) may require a few milliseconds to kick in. If so, that fraction of a second could be all you need to trip the Diamond relay. You can test this by repeating steps #1 and #2 above. The ideas is to have the Diamond's relay "ready and waiting" with everything configured when you plug the Schauer into the 117 VAC supply. You might unplug and plug it in a second time to see how it behaves with partial charge on its capacitors. I would give this solution a 10-15% chance . . . but, hey, it is worth a try.
Thanks Robert, Rick and others.

I will check that the Cessna plug has the + pins connected and that there is current in the plug when the Schauer is turned on. I understand about putting 24 volts into the plug but that seems to be a non starter. I can see that it would not be a good idea to have the Diamond APU terminals live while in flight!
What was the significance of pulling the battery circuit breakers? I can see that the master has to be on when programming the avionics but the screens are dead when the battery CB is off. When just charging I assume that the master should be off although the Schauer instructions, brief as they are, instruct to put the Master on. Is there perhaps a process whereby I can get 24 volts to the Diamond APU through using the plane's own battery power. I am surprised that the Schauer is unsuitable for a standard Cessna APU set up and it seems that I have made a very expensive mistake purchasing this unit particularly as it cost me $85.00 to get it shipped here and arguably another $85,00 to ship it back.
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rwtucker
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by rwtucker »

Lou wrote:Thanks - good info. A good site I used to use back when I was flying RC planes is http://batteryuniversity.com/. I'll check that too. But I am leaning towards getting the latest Battery Minder and just using the Schauer as an APU, which is why I bought it in the first place.
If you use the Schauer as an APU, make sure that it has an adjustable voltage output so that you can limit it to 28.5 volts.

This 0-30V, 0-10A supply appears to be the same one I purchased at a higher price. http://www.tmart.com/30V-10A-DC-Power-S ... 6-2016-up4
I like mine because I can set it to a constant 28 volts and it more-or-less keeps up with the G1000 panels when I am playing with flight plans, etc. in the hangar.
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by Wall-e »

A lot of info here on battery chargers. For what it is worth I use a Battery Minder specifically for my Concorde battery. I have the pigtails that connect direct to the battery which was done by my local shop. After each flight I connect the BM & it does the rest. The battery is now 2.5 years old & shows no sign of discharge. I have found that it will power up the avionics with a voltage of 24+ if I pull the CBs for the A/P, Rate Gyro (KAP-140) & the GDL69. I use it frequently to train new G1000 pilots while sitting in the hangar. No Hobbs time registered while using avionics powered by BM.
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by Lou »

Robert - thanks for the caution on the APU. I'll have to look into that. I got my new Battery Minder today. (S5) It has a table of float voltages at the back of the manual - depends on ambient temperature. 26.4V @ 21 - 27 degrees C
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by Gearle »

Update on this thread. it has been most helpful. So far to save my battery (currently down to 15V and will not start), i have purchased:
1. the common "yellow" APU plug http://www.skygeek.com/plug-and-play-11 ... apter.html. this is so i can connect a regular charger or jump wires to it. yet to try it.
2. a separate, on board, on top of the battery, desulphating module (Battery MINDer 24v On-Board Desulfator OBD-24
). i hope this will maintain the battery even when i'm flying. so far it seems not to harm anything. battery has been too close to dead and i haven't flown it enough to see if it's completely working.
3. a newer electronic charger, NOCO G15000 https://no.co/g15000. their tech support said i can put it into 'supply' mode first, hopefully that closes the relay everyone's talking about and then put it back into auto mode. i will connect it to the yellow" APU plug above.

I will hopefully try all this out this weekend 3/16/2018. we'll see what happens.
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Re: Need help on charging the battery??

Post by pietromarx »

I would be very interested in seeing if the NOCO G15000 could be a ground power unit and battery charger. Please let us know ...

Thanks
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