Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
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- Coolj4311
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
As always thank you for the feedback. I tried Steve's approach today and it helped. I took off a second time from a different airport and not so much had a stiff crosswind this time around. Practice makes perfect. Will keep everyone posted on the progress!
- griff12ga
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
Put me in the "if you're using brakes, you're doing it wrong" camp. Using brakes on the takeoff adds to the takeoff roll on an already modestly-powered plane, wears out the brakes and tires faster, and isn't necessary if you have enough rudder authority.
Zig-zagging across the centerline (even a little bit) is pilot induced oscillation and the fix is practice, not brakes (the exception that comes to mind is a crosswind that overpowers the rudder, which isn't what's being described).
I too have had takeoff rolls where I've been chasing the plane to keep the center line between the main tires. During the takeoff roll, the authority of the rudder is changing pretty quickly and you have to change the magnitude and speed/lag of your inputs just as quickly, and this is at a time when you're shifting off the brakes (both no longer using them during the initial acceleration, and physically dropping your feet of the toes of the rudder pedals - I'm sure others have better ways of doing this but oh well). But it's certainly no worse than most taildraggers or a seaplane (anything where you're depending on rudder and brakes only). I guess it is more than a PA28 or C172/182 (or anything with a steerable nosewheel) but using the nosewheel on those planes in that way is a crutch, and this is a better chance to fine tune your stick and rudder skills.
Zig-zagging across the centerline (even a little bit) is pilot induced oscillation and the fix is practice, not brakes (the exception that comes to mind is a crosswind that overpowers the rudder, which isn't what's being described).
I too have had takeoff rolls where I've been chasing the plane to keep the center line between the main tires. During the takeoff roll, the authority of the rudder is changing pretty quickly and you have to change the magnitude and speed/lag of your inputs just as quickly, and this is at a time when you're shifting off the brakes (both no longer using them during the initial acceleration, and physically dropping your feet of the toes of the rudder pedals - I'm sure others have better ways of doing this but oh well). But it's certainly no worse than most taildraggers or a seaplane (anything where you're depending on rudder and brakes only). I guess it is more than a PA28 or C172/182 (or anything with a steerable nosewheel) but using the nosewheel on those planes in that way is a crutch, and this is a better chance to fine tune your stick and rudder skills.
- Artiom
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
I tried to add power slowly on takeoff roll and it helped a lot. I didn't need to use breaks to stay on the center line at all. But that was direct headwind takeoff. Will try this technique with crosswind when I get a chance.
- alexanderk
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
Works same even with stiff 25knot 90 degree crosswind. You just need to modulate the rudder accordingly, certainly more aggressively. Still should not need brakes once the power comes up. An aileron into the wind will be necessary though, as well as an immediate turn into the wind once lifted off.
I'm "lucky" having to practice these once in a while
I'm "lucky" having to practice these once in a while
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
Jim
I will give you an honest and respectful answer: the best is to find someone who could help you refine your technique.
I can second three of the suggestions here:
1. there is no need to use differential braking after launching. I only use it in the first 2-3 seconds, and that's because of other considerations that require launching with full RPM (high DA short field). if you can afford to advance throttle slower it is much better ( not just for the tracking!)
2. You need to develop a sense of how your rudder authority changes during the roll and rotation.
3. Having both feet on the pedals and using the force difference to fine steer works well for me. Just make sure you dont apply excessive force - and don't use this technique with the brakes when taxiing!
Wanting to become better is a great thing. A good CFI or a seasoned DA40 pilot will help you get there very quickly. It is also a matter of safety: being able to maintain centerline is a good indication of how you can (or cannot) use your rudder. It will greatly develop your self confidence and ability to deal with nasty gusts at low speeds. So by all means: go for it.
This said, it is true that the DA40 becomes difficult near Vr, especially in a high DA gusty cross wind situation. but that's where we get our money's worth of adrenalin, right?
Safe flying and let us know how it goes!
Antoine
I will give you an honest and respectful answer: the best is to find someone who could help you refine your technique.
I can second three of the suggestions here:
1. there is no need to use differential braking after launching. I only use it in the first 2-3 seconds, and that's because of other considerations that require launching with full RPM (high DA short field). if you can afford to advance throttle slower it is much better ( not just for the tracking!)
2. You need to develop a sense of how your rudder authority changes during the roll and rotation.
3. Having both feet on the pedals and using the force difference to fine steer works well for me. Just make sure you dont apply excessive force - and don't use this technique with the brakes when taxiing!
Wanting to become better is a great thing. A good CFI or a seasoned DA40 pilot will help you get there very quickly. It is also a matter of safety: being able to maintain centerline is a good indication of how you can (or cannot) use your rudder. It will greatly develop your self confidence and ability to deal with nasty gusts at low speeds. So by all means: go for it.
This said, it is true that the DA40 becomes difficult near Vr, especially in a high DA gusty cross wind situation. but that's where we get our money's worth of adrenalin, right?
Safe flying and let us know how it goes!
Antoine
- alexanderk
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
Something I would add - take a note of where you feet are doing the take off run. I personally make a point to keep them firmly planted on the floor (as oppose to suspended on the pedals). This ensures that I am not incidentally applying slight pressure to the tips, hence unintentional differential breaking. This might also contribute to you not tracking straight especially at speed.
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
For those of you who get "Flying" magazine the February 2013 issue, take a look at the nose wheel of the Piper Cherokee PA-32 on page 40. It seems like our Diamond nose wheel issue may not be exclusive to Diamond aircraft.
- ThomRiddle
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
To help preclude the need for steering with brakes during take-off, whenever possible, I start my take-off roll pointed to the right side of the runway about 30 degrees so that the left turning tendency will bring the nose around to centerline. I adjust throttle advance rate to make this all happen without needing brakes for steering and end up with nose on centerline by the time the rudder is effective enough to keep it properly aligned during the rest of the take-off roll without brakes.
How much initial crab is needed and how fast/slow to advance the throttle depends on how much and which direction the x-wind is coming from. Practice enough and it will become second nature.
How much initial crab is needed and how fast/slow to advance the throttle depends on how much and which direction the x-wind is coming from. Practice enough and it will become second nature.
Thom in Buffalo
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- Chris B
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
Great idea! This requires more skill (/practice), but clearly is the lowest-drag condition for take-off.ThomRiddle wrote:To help preclude the need for steering with brakes during take-off, whenever possible, I start my take-off roll pointed to the right side of the runway about 30 degrees so that the left turning tendency will bring the nose around to centerline. I adjust throttle advance rate to make this all happen without needing brakes for steering and end up with nose on centerline by the time the rudder is effective enough to keep it properly aligned during the rest of the take-off roll without brakes.
How much initial crab is needed and how fast/slow to advance the throttle depends on how much and which direction the x-wind is coming from. Practice enough and it will become second nature.
I'm experiencing yet another "why didn't I think of this" moment...
Chris
- Kai
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!
I never use brakes for stearing. Rudder alone is enough.
Maybe I missed something but the topic subject is "castering nose wheel". Keeping the nose wheel light from the very beginning of take-off run helps a lot and this way you will need less rudder to keep it on the centerline and the nose wheel will not wobble.
You will hear the annoying stall horn even before airborne. I ignore it and keep the front wheel light. Took me a long time to learn that his saves you a lot of trouble and maintenance.
Maybe I missed something but the topic subject is "castering nose wheel". Keeping the nose wheel light from the very beginning of take-off run helps a lot and this way you will need less rudder to keep it on the centerline and the nose wheel will not wobble.
You will hear the annoying stall horn even before airborne. I ignore it and keep the front wheel light. Took me a long time to learn that his saves you a lot of trouble and maintenance.
DA40F - N405FP/HS-KAI (sold)