Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

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Rich
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by Rich »

Tommy wrote:For those of you who get "Flying" magazine the February 2013 issue, take a look at the nose wheel of the Piper Cherokee PA-32 on page 40. It seems like our Diamond nose wheel issue may not be exclusive to Diamond aircraft.
Every Piper I ever flew had a hard link between the nosewheel and the rudder pedals. (Requires an interesting technique at touchdown in a strong crosswind.) If the nosewheel is cocked, it implies the plane was flying at a slip at the time the photo was take. This is not unheard of in aerial photo sessions.
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by alexanderk »

Kai wrote:I never use brakes for stearing. Rudder alone is enough.

Maybe I missed something but the topic subject is "castering nose wheel". Keeping the nose wheel light from the very beginning of take-off run helps a lot and this way you will need less rudder to keep it on the centerline and the nose wheel will not wobble.
+1

I start the take-off run nose pointing sharp straight. And deflecting the stick back good couple of inches from neutral (trim is neutral). And as speed builds up - easing the stick a gradually, but never completely to the neutral. Just about the Vr speed the airplane flies itself off the runway naturally, I never "rotate". And only slight trim change will be necessary for the Vy/Vx.

PS I saw a picture from Michael P flying your DA40 the other day in Thailand. He is a GREAT GREAT guy and source for all diamond and aerobatic. He is simply amazing, if a bit of a character. But who isn't :)
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by Tommy »

Rich wrote:
Tommy wrote:For those of you who get "Flying" magazine the February 2013 issue, take a look at the nose wheel of the Piper Cherokee PA-32 on page 40. It seems like our Diamond nose wheel issue may not be exclusive to Diamond aircraft.
Every Piper I ever flew had a hard link between the nosewheel and the rudder pedals. (Requires an interesting technique at touchdown in a strong crosswind.) If the nosewheel is cocked, it implies the plane was flying at a slip at the time the photo was take. This is not unheard of in aerial photo sessions.
There is no slip going on in this photo of this Piper.
It's in straight and level flight and the wheel is cocked just like the Diamond to what appears to be the exact same degree as the Diamond.
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by Gasser »

That's strange, the piper I trained in the rudder was connected to the nose wheel. If I hooked the tow bar and turned it on the ground the rudder would turn also. For the nose wheel to be turned so would the rudder.

Maybe I'm missing something.
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Rich
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by Rich »

Gasser wrote:That's strange, the piper I trained in the rudder was connected to the nose wheel. If I hooked the tow bar and turned it on the ground the rudder would turn also. For the nose wheel to be turned so would the rudder.

Maybe I'm missing something.
For sure PA28's and PA22's are built this way. Perhaps the PA32's have a spring linkage like the Cessnas, but I'm pretty sure they are not free-castering on the ground. I do know of aircraft with complex linkages that actually release as the nosegear extends to avoid the negative side-effects of a hard-linked nosewheel when landing in a crosswind.
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by Tommy »

If you have the magazine, "Flying" look at the photo as I describe in the above post and tell me what you see.
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by Rick »

Tommy wrote:If you have the magazine, "Flying" look at the photo as I describe in the above post and tell me what you see.
It's hard for me to tell if the nose wheel is really pointing left, or if it is just an illusion. As others have mentioned, all the PA-28's I have flown had the nose wheel directly tied to the rudder, and the rudder appears to be straight in the photo. I don't know anything about the PA-32 though...
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Rich
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by Rich »

Rick wrote:
Tommy wrote:If you have the magazine, "Flying" look at the photo as I describe in the above post and tell me what you see.
It's hard for me to tell if the nose wheel is really pointing left, or if it is just an illusion. As others have mentioned, all the PA-28's I have flown had the nose wheel directly tied to the rudder, and the rudder appears to be straight in the photo. I don't know anything about the PA-32 though...
FWIW, from the PA32's POH, regarding mooring and control locks:

The rudder is held in position by its connections to the nose wheel steering and normally does not have to be secured.
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by Lance Murray »

Just a couple of suggestions.

Make sure your heels are on the floor and you are not touching the brakes. Sounds to me like you are over controlling. Pay attention to the wind direction before you advance the throttle. Think about the winds effect on the aircraft. Put in some aileron into the wind and expect the airplane to want to point into the wind. Advance your power slowly and don't shove the throttle forward all at one.

I flew with someone last week that didn't pay any attention to wind. Jammed the throttle forward all at once. She had her feet on the top of the pedals and was riding the brakes the whole takeoff. She learned to fly in a cirrus but these concepts should apply to all aircraft. Stay off the brakes and do EVERYTHING in a slower, gentle and controlled manner.

If you over control a castering nose wheel it would be far worse in a steerable nose wheel.
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Re: Castering nose wheel on take off roll UGH!!!!!!

Post by krellis »

Everyone has their opinions and techniques and I'll add to the discussion. I have not heard this mentioned in any of the answers, but a CFI back when I was learning to fly told me one common mistake made during takeoff roll is looking directly off the nose (too close in). He suggested picking an object (like a tree) at the far end of the runway and using that as your reference point to help keep the nose pointed straight down the runway. Seems to work in the DA-40 for me and I use it also in the 737. I think the idea is that small deviations from centerline are noticed quicker and you can respond with equally small corrections sooner - which lessens the chance at PIO. Don't know if this will help at all, but it might.

I too, agree, that the rudder is powerful enough fairly quickly in the take off roll that you shouldn't require any differential braking. I keep my heels on the floor also, but you need to be able to immediately apply brakes in the event of an RTO.

Krea Ellis
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