DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

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Spidercool
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DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Spidercool »

I would like to ask you guys, which one is a better option for grass field operation?

I live in Europe and in my country we have a lot of small airports with grass strip. Many of them are not in good condition and a lot of them are pretty short strips.

The new DA40 Tundra star has special landing gear with bigger wheels, vortex, ailerons flap, etc… but also has Austro Engine which is heavier and the aircraft is 287 lbs (130 kg) heavier than DA40 lycoming.

Because of the weight:
DA40 tundra Star take-off ground roll is 1444 ft (440m) v 1027 (313m) Lycoming
Tundra Star stall speed (full flaps) is 58 kts v 49 kts Lycoming

Where is a Tundra Star deal?

I know that diesel engine is better for high altitude flying because of engine turbo but short, grass field operation should be better in 180KM Lycoming because less weight and more power.

Probably, the best idea for me is to have DA40 Lycoming with different, bigger wheels on it and maybe a stol kit if there is any?

What are your opinions?
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Re: DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Antoine »

Spidercool wrote:I would like to ask you guys, which one is a better option for grass field operation?

I live in Europe and in my country we have a lot of small airports with grass strip. Many of them are not in good condition and a lot of them are pretty short strips.

The new DA40 Tundra star has special landing gear with bigger wheels, vortex, ailerons flap, etc… but also has Austro Engine which is heavier and the aircraft is 287 lbs (130 kg) heavier than DA40 lycoming.

Because of the weight:
DA40 tundra Star take-off ground roll is 1444 ft (440m) v 1027 (313m) Lycoming
Tundra Star stall speed (full flaps) is 58 kts v 49 kts Lycoming

Where is a Tundra Star deal?

I know that diesel engine is better for high altitude flying because of engine turbo but short, grass field operation should be better in 180KM Lycoming because less weight and more power.

Probably, the best idea for me is to have DA40 Lycoming with different, bigger wheels on it and maybe a stol kit if there is any?

What are your opinions?
Hello Konrad and welcome here

Your questions are very smart and you are hitting the right issue with the DA40 Tundra. I was not aware of the numbers. Apparently, it needs a lot of enhancements to even come close to the Lycoming version in terms of STOL performance. The DA40 is not an outstanding airplane for grass strip ops because its landing gear has no damping and the Tundra has low pressure tires to somewhat improve this. I dont know if it is legal to fit them on the Lyco version.

I think the decision should be based upon the availability of AVGAS in your area. It is very easy to remove the wheel pants on a standard DA40-180 for permanent grass field ops. And yes, the Lycoming version climbs very well.
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Re: DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Kai »

Spidercool wrote:
Where is a Tundra Star deal?
I can't see any advantages except for the possibility to operate it with jet fuel. But if you land in places where they have jet fuel, they have long runways. It seems that the DA40 Tundra is meant more for missions in Eastern Europe and Russia....
Spidercool wrote:I know that diesel engine is better for high altitude flying because of engine turbo but short, grass field operation should be better in 180KM Lycoming because less weight and more power.

Probably, the best idea for me is to have DA40 Lycoming with different, bigger wheels on it and maybe a stol kit if there is any?

What are your opinions?
Just get bigger wheels and a Hartzell prop instead of MT, add some protective tape in places where debris can hit the leading edge of the wings. A Lycoming will always outperform the Austro and under certain circumstances you can fly a Lycoming engine with MoGas.

But quite frankly: a DA40 with its low wing configuration simply isn't meant for STOL operations. And you can always operate a DA40 on grass if the field is just long enough. You might get along with a very normal Lycoming powered DA40 and taking the wheel pants off.
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Re: DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Tommy »

Spidercool wrote:I would like to ask you guys, which one is a better option for grass field operation?

I live in Europe and in my country we have a lot of small airports with grass strip. Many of them are not in good condition and a lot of them are pretty short strips.

The new DA40 Tundra star has special landing gear with bigger wheels, vortex, ailerons flap, etc… but also has Austro Engine which is heavier and the aircraft is 287 lbs (130 kg) heavier than DA40 lycoming.

Because of the weight:
DA40 tundra Star take-off ground roll is 1444 ft (440m) v 1027 (313m) Lycoming
Tundra Star stall speed (full flaps) is 58 kts v 49 kts Lycoming

Where is a Tundra Star deal?

I know that diesel engine is better for high altitude flying because of engine turbo but short, grass field operation should be better in 180KM Lycoming because less weight and more power.

Probably, the best idea for me is to have DA40 Lycoming with different, bigger wheels on it and maybe a stol kit if there is any?

What are your opinions?
This is what you want. It's also what I want, along with my DA40 also of course. http://www.aviataircraft.com/husky.html
The only advantage of a diesel engine that I see at this point in time is the fact that in some places of the world only diesel fuel is available. Other than that, I see no advantages and a lot of disadvantages, some major ones which you have already mentioned.
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Re: DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Spidercool »

Kai wrote:
But quite frankly: a DA40 with its low wing configuration simply isn't meant for STOL operations. And you can always operate a DA40 on grass if the field is just long enough. You might get along with a very normal Lycoming powered DA40 and taking the wheel pants off.
How long should be the grass runway for DA40 Lycoming to operate safely with two standard (70kg) people on board and 3/4 fuel ?
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Re: DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Spidercool »

Tommy wrote: This is what you want. It's also what I want, along with my DA40 also of course. http://www.aviataircraft.com/husky.html
During last months I almost buy a new Maule M7 235C. There is one very nice in my airport.
I have a test flight of it and have to say that stol feature is amazing.
The worst thing for me is that the plane is a tailwheel and tailwheel Mauls have a lot of accidents during crosswind landing. Maul crosswind component is only 12 kts.

I like to fly backcountry but my home airport is a international with long paved runway and landing tailwheel airplane on paved runway is more difficult especially in crosswind.

I made my IFR license on DA40 and like it a lot. The visibility is amazing, also flying with G1000 and a stick is nice.
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Re: DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Tommy »

Spidercool wrote:
Tommy wrote: This is what you want. It's also what I want, along with my DA40 also of course. http://www.aviataircraft.com/husky.html
During last months I almost buy a new Maule M7 235C. There is one very nice in my airport.
I have a test flight of it and have to say that stol feature is amazing.
The worst thing for me is that the plane is a tailwheel and tailwheel Mauls have a lot of accidents during crosswind landing. Maul crosswind component is only 12 kts.

I like to fly backcountry but my home airport is a international with long paved runway and landing tailwheel airplane on paved runway is more difficult especially in crosswind.

I made my IFR license on DA40 and like it a lot. The visibility is amazing, also flying with G1000 and a stick is nice.
Same here and I fully agree. I don't know of a plane out there that can come close to
what the da40 offers in it's class.
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Re: DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Thomas »

Hi Konrad, I think you can not compare the Maule with the DA40. I learned to fly on a Maule, with Ray Maule in Moultry GA Spence Field. I like to fly the MX7-235 we had as a tow plane in our club. As tow pilot you get excellent landing training wich is needed for that plane. But for back country the Maule is perfect, lot of power and with the STOL kit, excellent into short strips. The Diamond more for traveling "in style" more comfortable. It really depend for what you most need your plane. Anyway, the Maule you also get with a nose gear config ... But I decided finally that the Diamond is my plane and I am happy with it. But the Maule is still deep in my heart. Thomas
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Re: DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Jean »

Hello Konrad,
Do you have Tundra's numbers ? I didn't find them on Diamond's web site.
If I compare NG and Lyco versions I see
- best glide angle speed : 88 kts for NG, 60-76 for Lyco
- engine out landing speed : 77 for NG, 58-73 for Lyco
- stalling speed : 57-60 for NG, 42-52 for Lyco
If you could fit big wheels AND flaperons AND 1280 kg main landing gear on a DA 40 180, it could be interesting !
130 kg extra weight for the Austro is hard to balance with aerodynamic improvements.
If you need diesel STOL airplane check for Pilatus Porter...
40.446, G1000, KAP 140, Hartzell Metal
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Re: DA40 Tundra Star v DA40 Lycoming

Post by Spidercool »

Jean wrote:Hello Konrad,
Do you have Tundra's numbers ? I didn't find them on Diamond's web site.
Please find DA 40 Tundra Star via dropbox
https://www.dropbox.com/link/17.GO9Izad ... eb7d3477ec
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