Lithium Backup Battery Pack

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rwtucker
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by rwtucker »

gsontheimer wrote:The AMM states to replace the battery pack when the voltage is < 36 Volts. Now that there are two packs with a nominal voltage of 30 Volts and 36 Volts, what would be the "open current" voltage of the 30 Volt version? 30 Volts? 32 V? 36 V?
I can't answer this question in terms of FAA requirements.

Practically speaking, this particular sub-type of Li-Ion cell (not a battery) starts out life at >=3.2 volts. The discharge curve is such that an open circuit voltage below 3.0 volts per cell would probably indicate a substantial loss of capacity. A much better test would be a momentary reading of the voltage under a 10% load. A 200 ohm resistor would create this load assuming that the cells are 1500 ma max continuous load rating. In this test, I would look for a voltage of >= 2.93 volts. This would suggest that you have >=95% remaining capacity. A 10% load voltage of >=2.9 volts would suggest that you have at least 50% capacity. All of this is approximate as the attached spec sheet will make this more clear. [If you conduct this test, make sure that the load resistor is large enough that it will not change temperature substantially. If it does, the resistance goes up, dropping the load. You can either run the test very quickly with a standard 1/4 or 1/2 watt resistor or, better still, use a 5 or 10 watt resistor and allow the load on the cells to stabilize for 30 seconds or so.]

A typical problem when you have 10 cells in a battery, one cell will have gone bad (maybe reading 2.0 volts) while the other nine are still fresh giving you an indication of an average loss of 0.1 volts per cell. Given the way Diamond sealed this pack, it is difficult to deal with the individual cells.
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gandalfim
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by gandalfim »

I just found out (literally the day after I purchased and received a new replacement battery pack) that we don't necessarily need to follow the 2 year replacement rule.

Chapter 4 of Rev. 7 of the DA40 AMM now states:
Component:
Emergency battery
Replace all cells at the same time. All cells must have the same expiration date, or replace the battery package.
Replacement Time:
2 years, or upon reaching the date marked on each cell or package, or after use.

The "or package" is the important part. The date on my latest battery pack/package is 2025; no more every 2 years!!
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by linzhiming »

gandalfim wrote:I just found out (literally the day after I purchased and received a new replacement battery pack) that we don't necessarily need to follow the 2 year replacement rule.

Chapter 4 of Rev. 7 of the DA40 AMM now states:
Component:
Emergency battery
Replace all cells at the same time. All cells must have the same expiration date, or replace the battery package.
Replacement Time:
2 years, or upon reaching the date marked on each cell or package, or after use.

The "or package" is the important part. The date on my latest battery pack/package is 2025; no more every 2 years!!
Hi Dan,

I originally interpreted it the same way you did and checked with Diamond to confirm but apparently it is unfortunately supposed to mean "whichever is earlier", which makes sense in the context of "or after use".

in general, the 2 years do seem overly restrictive to me. I am not an electrical engineer but would it make a difference whether the battery pack is stored in a drawer or installed on the aircraft with the emergency switch clearly and visibly set to off so that the circuit always remains open? Or could out be the ambient temperature fluctuations on the cowling shortening the life span?

Wolfgang
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by rwtucker »

What I think we learned in this discussion a year or so ago is that Diamond used different cells at different production periods. I have not verified but it looks like my cells are lithium-iron disulfide. If so, they can be stored and operated over a high temperature range that you are not likely to exceed in the cockpit unless you park in Phoenix with the vents closed. Even so, all cell chemistries age a little faster if stored in high temperatures for extended periods of time.

Other Lithium formulations are more temperature sensitive at both ends (lower power if very cold and deterioration if very hot).

In my opinion, the two-year requirement is excessive on every possible basis. Beyond that, VFR pilots will look at this differently than those who fly IFR.

Dan and Wolfgang's discussion raises an interesting point. Are we required to follow what is written or what Diamond said on the telephone. If you don't "use" those cells, it would seem that you could -- if you wanted to -- follow the date code on the batteries. Even the term "used" is vague. All cells are "used" at the factory in a production test. If you make a quick test, are your cells "used?"

Even so, I'm not sure I would go to the full 10 years that many cells leave the factory marked. I might split the difference.
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by gsontheimer »

Applying the rule that applies to ELT batteries, you could leave them for 5 years in your aircraft, provided they have a shelf life of 10 years (50 %), which would seem fair to me. But not 2 years just to feed Diamond.
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by rwtucker »

These are the Lithium cells (2) I have in my ELT.
ELT LiMnO2 Battery U10015.pdf
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Note that they are rated at a 10 year shelf life. There are substitute cells that are rated at 15 years and have 40% greater AH capacity.

The internal loss of these cells is rated at 5% per year, which translates to ~77% capacity at the end of 5 years. In turn, this would translate to a continuous 5W, 406 MHz pulsed transmission for ~18.5 hours and ~38.5 hours at 121.5 MHz (still used by many local S&R teams).

These ratings are all conservative. I have found the internal losses to be less than half of spec ratings, probably because I seldom have the aircraft in a hot environment and it spends most of its time in a cool hangar (temperature at least :D ).
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by Colin »

My mechanic: "That sounds like the way the manual has always been. By all cells they're referring to the old packs that had 28 AA batteries inside. The expiration date on the battery is the shelf life, the service life is two years once installed."

Bummer.
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by dwurfel »

Jean, I have a 2012 G1000 DA-40. How do you access the emergency battery pack. Thanks :bow
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by dwurfel »

Kurt h wrote:Our plane is due for the 2 year replacement of the backup lithium battery pack. I went through Don Davis Aviation last time for $186 + $95 hazardous shipping charge. Has anyone found a less expensive way to acquire this battery pack?

Kurt, do you have contact in for for Don Davis. Thanks
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Re: Lithium Backup Battery Pack

Post by dwurfel »

Kurt, do you have contact info for Don Davis. Thanks
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