“Expedite climb”
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- BkFlyer
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“Expedite climb”
I fly a DA-40 out of KLDJ. The field is 4nm from the 04L threshold at Newark, and 1nm off the localizer centerline. So, really really close!
Anyway, I just got my instrument rating a month ago (yay!) and I have been intentionally filing IFR with EWR. I do this painful process knowing it’s going to add 20 minutes to my flight as practice for when I really need to do it.
Every time I switch to approach on takeoff, they come back with a request for “max rate” or “expedited climb” to 6,000 or 8,000. From sea level. In 90F summer heat.
So... any tips on fast rate climbs?
Density alt makes it 3,000-11,000 climb. I have had success with a process similar to POH: leaving T/O flaps in, shooting for 75kts 2400ish RPM. But, fuel consumption is extreme and CHT can exceed 430...
Anyway, I just got my instrument rating a month ago (yay!) and I have been intentionally filing IFR with EWR. I do this painful process knowing it’s going to add 20 minutes to my flight as practice for when I really need to do it.
Every time I switch to approach on takeoff, they come back with a request for “max rate” or “expedited climb” to 6,000 or 8,000. From sea level. In 90F summer heat.
So... any tips on fast rate climbs?
Density alt makes it 3,000-11,000 climb. I have had success with a process similar to POH: leaving T/O flaps in, shooting for 75kts 2400ish RPM. But, fuel consumption is extreme and CHT can exceed 430...
- waynemcc999
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Re: “Expedite climb”
My suggestion... "unable". In my opinion (per Busch, et al), CHTs of 430 degF for the ~15 minute climb is way too hot, too long. Maybe I'm being naive, but you were given a valid clearance, and that clearance assumes 500 fpm climb rate... so it's ATC's job to fit you into the overall picture.
I'd do a simple experiment... climb SL to say 6000' MSL, with Flaps up, wide-open throttle, 2450 rpm, Mixture rich enough and pitch attitude just enough to keep CHTs <390 degF... find out that that gives you XYZ fpm (I'd guess generally ~600 fpm). Then when ATC requests "expedited climb", I'd respond with "able only XYZ fpm".
I'd do a simple experiment... climb SL to say 6000' MSL, with Flaps up, wide-open throttle, 2450 rpm, Mixture rich enough and pitch attitude just enough to keep CHTs <390 degF... find out that that gives you XYZ fpm (I'd guess generally ~600 fpm). Then when ATC requests "expedited climb", I'd respond with "able only XYZ fpm".
Last edited by waynemcc999 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
Wayne McClelland
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
- BkFlyer
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Re: “Expedite climb”
That’s a good idea. Much easier to experiment off an IFR plan and be confident about aircraft limitations.
I did try to avoid flaps with WOT the first time, but they came back and asked again for more climb before I was able to figure out an optimal configuration. Thanks
I did try to avoid flaps with WOT the first time, but they came back and asked again for more climb before I was able to figure out an optimal configuration. Thanks
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Like Wayne said, tell them your "expedite" climb rate that YOU are comfortable with! If they don't like it, they will give you a lower level off altitude or give you a vector.
Don't let ATC "damage" your plane!
Don't let ATC "damage" your plane!
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- BkFlyer
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Thanks guys. Basically I tried my standard climb procedure the first time, and then the POH-like method the second time. Seems it may not be a technique issue at all and for the third time, tell ATC to figure something else out as you advise.
While temps didn’t come close to touch the yellow line I have been a DAN reader for long enough to know about the CHT 390 prevailing recommendation. frankly it is hard enough to stay under 400 in a NYC summer since I can’t go above 3k VFR for quite a while (Bravo) and when filing IFR they send me straight above the bravo like a rocket...
While temps didn’t come close to touch the yellow line I have been a DAN reader for long enough to know about the CHT 390 prevailing recommendation. frankly it is hard enough to stay under 400 in a NYC summer since I can’t go above 3k VFR for quite a while (Bravo) and when filing IFR they send me straight above the bravo like a rocket...
- Rich
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Wow. I never flew out of LDJ - didn't realize how close it is to EWR approaches. Even though I grew up in Carteret I took my early flight training up at Teterboro (1965 - a whole different experience back then). I've recently had occasion to notice the really low VFR traffic over the Turnpike to get in and out of LDJ. Doesn't look like fun dealing with that airspace.
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- Rich
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Would it be possible to file a different route such that ATC wouldn't have you trying the Space Shuttle departure?
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- mhoran
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Knowing Adam (we're co-owners of N269RB), this happens when flying North. Given Linden is at the South of the New York bravo, we'd probably have to head West before heading North. I'd guess that would add at least 30 minutes to the flight.Rich wrote:Would it be possible to file a different route such that ATC wouldn't have you trying the Space Shuttle departure?
Also, when EWR is landing on 22, heading West would put you right in the right downwind, which is the normal pattern for those runways (in my experience).
East isn't an option because of JFK. Maybe southeast and then North but that's not going to be a timesaver.
I'm still VFR at this point (working on IR) so when departing the area to the north I take the Skyline route. That's pretty much the most direct way to head North from Linden, and I've never been asked to expedite because the highest they'll put you is 2000. But that doesn't help in IMC.
Given delays getting clearances at Linden (especially during VIP TFRs), I wonder if the best option would be to depart VFR up the river and then pick up the clearance once clear of the bravo.
- Rich
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Re: “Expedite climb”
Makes sense. At least it's not for every departure. It looks like the GPS-A is no fun, either, especially coming in from the North. Or is that an approach they never (or rarely) let you use? I've encountered those situations.
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Re: “Expedite climb”
My sister lives in Bayonne, so I've flown into Linden a number of times... but not lately. As I recall, I was always able to get my IFR clearance from the ground, and always with a "Void if not off by..." limit. Once off it was always a challenge to try to get a word in edgewise to let ATC know that I'd departed.
Many years ago, when I had my Lance, I took off from KPDK with my family, headed to KBCT. When we took off the gear did not retract. As it turned out a hydraulic line had broken, but all we knew was that the plane was not climbing well. We had been cleared to 9000' to overfly Atlanta-Hartsfield, and we were in IMC. I asked for a block altitude of 7000'-9000' after explaining the gear problem. ATC advised that they were "unable" to provide the block due to traffic at KATL. I responded by advising ATC that if they were unable to give it to me, then I would declare an emergency and take it. Guess what? They cleared me for the block. The moral of the story is that you are sitting in the cockpit, and you are the ultimate authority as to the safe conduct of the flight. No matter what ATC wants, if you cannot comply and you give them a valid reason, then do what you are able to do, even if it means declaring an emergency.
As far as "expedite climb" goes, my suggestion is to do your best, within limits of safety and aircraft performance, and tell ATC that that is your best climb rate. Similarly, when I am on an IFR flight plan into KPDK, which has two parallel runways, with 21L being the longer of the two, and the one with the ILS, I am often told to "keep my speed up" due to following jet aircraft also headed for 21L. Again, I keep my speed up while descending, and if I break out at a reasonable altitude I will generally offer to land on 21R, which frees up 21L. So, do what you can with the understanding that ATC is sitting at a radar scope, and that they are trying to serve all with limited resources, but that does not mean that you should do something that you do not consider to be safe or within your capabilities or those of your aircraft.
Sandy
Many years ago, when I had my Lance, I took off from KPDK with my family, headed to KBCT. When we took off the gear did not retract. As it turned out a hydraulic line had broken, but all we knew was that the plane was not climbing well. We had been cleared to 9000' to overfly Atlanta-Hartsfield, and we were in IMC. I asked for a block altitude of 7000'-9000' after explaining the gear problem. ATC advised that they were "unable" to provide the block due to traffic at KATL. I responded by advising ATC that if they were unable to give it to me, then I would declare an emergency and take it. Guess what? They cleared me for the block. The moral of the story is that you are sitting in the cockpit, and you are the ultimate authority as to the safe conduct of the flight. No matter what ATC wants, if you cannot comply and you give them a valid reason, then do what you are able to do, even if it means declaring an emergency.
As far as "expedite climb" goes, my suggestion is to do your best, within limits of safety and aircraft performance, and tell ATC that that is your best climb rate. Similarly, when I am on an IFR flight plan into KPDK, which has two parallel runways, with 21L being the longer of the two, and the one with the ILS, I am often told to "keep my speed up" due to following jet aircraft also headed for 21L. Again, I keep my speed up while descending, and if I break out at a reasonable altitude I will generally offer to land on 21R, which frees up 21L. So, do what you can with the understanding that ATC is sitting at a radar scope, and that they are trying to serve all with limited resources, but that does not mean that you should do something that you do not consider to be safe or within your capabilities or those of your aircraft.
Sandy