Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

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DiamondMike
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Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by DiamondMike »

Had an issue come up the other day on a rental Diamond 20. The stall warning system did not test using my suction device.

In the manual, the stall warning system is not mentioned in the Kinds of Equipment required. Nor is it even listed in the equipment installed as shown in the Weight and Balance chapter.

So can an inoperative stall warning system be deferred on a Diamond 20?

Thanks.
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Derek
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Re: Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by Derek »

I don’t know why it’s so cryptic but as I understand it is legally required (makes perfect sense, it’s a rather important tool!). It isn’t listed in the poh (makes no sense) but apparently it’s listed as a requirement in the type certificate data sheet. Excellent example of extra layers of complexity that can easily trip up a pilot.
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thefoxx
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Re: Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by thefoxx »

..interesting. I have never heard of a "suction device" other than my own mouth for testing the stall warning system!

Was there something else people use? Am I the only weirdo that does it this way?!
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Rick
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Re: Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by Rick »

My DA40 came equipped with one of these:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... rntest.php
Stall Warning Horn Tester.jpg
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DiamondMike
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Re: Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by DiamondMike »

That's what I use. No sense in sucking in any bugs, dirt, or stale water. Or Corona Virus!
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thefoxx
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Re: Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by thefoxx »

:lol: Now that device would definitely make me look (just a little) more sophisticated that sucking on the leading edge and confusing my passenger! Funny out of all the different DA20's and several 40's I've been in - I have never seen that!

Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by RMarkSampson »

There is no "legal requirement" for a stall horn. That little reed broke in my stall horn - stall horn was non-mission capable until the replacement came in. Was only one or two flights before my replacement reed was delivered - but POH did not specifically state the aircraft was not airworthy without it. Did I miss it? -Absolutely. Was the aircraft legally non-airworthy without it? -no... I certainly would not leave it "in service" if the plane is operating in a flight school or club.

POH: 2.13 KINDS OF OPERATION Flights are permissible in accordance with visual flight rules. Minimum Equipment, Flight and Navigation Instruments: (Stall horn is not listed).

Caveat is: "Additional equipment may be required for compliance with specific operational or specific national requirements. It is the operators responsibility to ensure compliance with any such specific equipment requirements"
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Rich
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Re: Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by Rich »

RMarkSampson wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:36 am There is no "legal requirement" for a stall horn. That little reed broke in my stall horn - stall horn was non-mission capable until the replacement came in. Was only one or two flights before my replacement reed was delivered - but POH did not specifically state the aircraft was not airworthy without it. Did I miss it? -Absolutely. Was the aircraft legally non-airworthy without it? -no... I certainly would not leave it "in service" if the plane is operating in a flight school or club.

POH: 2.13 KINDS OF OPERATION Flights are permissible in accordance with visual flight rules. Minimum Equipment, Flight and Navigation Instruments: (Stall horn is not listed).

Caveat is: "Additional equipment may be required for compliance with specific operational or specific national requirements. It is the operators responsibility to ensure compliance with any such specific equipment requirements"
Part 23 is probably what’s definitive. I notice ailerons are not listed as required :D
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Re: Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by blsewardjr »

FYI, a functioning stall warning system IS required for the DA40. It's listed in the minimum operational equipment list for daytime VFR (POH Chapter 2.13) Once canceled a flight on that basis and always check as part of my pre-flight.
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Re: Stall Warning System Required for Flight?

Post by Aggiepack »

RMarkSampson wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:36 am There is no "legal requirement" for a stall horn. That little reed broke in my stall horn - stall horn was non-mission capable until the replacement came in. Was only one or two flights before my replacement reed was delivered - but POH did not specifically state the aircraft was not airworthy without it. Did I miss it? -Absolutely. Was the aircraft legally non-airworthy without it? -no... "
Rule of thumb: every tiny little bit of equipment must be in good working order. But the world is not perfect. So the answer is burried in FAR § 91.213:

Assuming that there is no MEL in place, starting point for an airworthy determination is if the stall horn is a required item under FAR § 91.205 or any other Part 91 rule like 91.107, 91.205, 91.207, 91.209, 91.211 or 91.215. The stall horn is not on the list.
So let's proceed to the next step: is the item required by the equipment list or Kinds of Operation Equipment List?
If not, is the item required by AD?
If not, then we are in the scope of § 91.213 (4) and the determination by a pilot or mechanic who concludes that the inoperative equipment does not constitute a hazard to the a/c after the inoperative item has been deactivated or removed and placarded in accordance with § 91.213 (3)

No deactivation and placard mentioned in the given sample of the inop stall horn - so a/c without the stall horn is not good to fly.
Missing aileron - good luck with the FAA explaining to them that this does not constitute a hazard to the a/c even after updating the W&B
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