More performance?

Group opinion recorded by the community.

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Are you interested in higher performace in their AVGAS DA40?

Yes: Under $20,000 STC for a TA normalized IO360
23
30%
Yes: Small mods getting another 10 kts $10,000 or less
22
29%
Yes: IO390 (200hp) engine ($25,000)
16
21%
No: Love it the way it is
10
13%
No: I'd use another aircraft for that mission
5
7%
 
Total votes: 76
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Fred
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More performance?

Post by Fred »

Anyone looking for more performance?
Last edited by Fred on Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Gary
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Re: More performance?

Post by Gary »

I think that the IO-380 would be the most practical option, especially when it is time to replace the original engine. I have read that the weight and size are the same as the IO-360 so certification should be less of an issue than a turbo option. I doubt that other mods less than $10,000 can achieve an extra 10 knots.
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Chris
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Re: More performance?

Post by Chris »

My pick is the turbo-normalized IO-360. I really don't need more performance at lower altitudes, but it ticks me off to lose performance when I'm up high. I don't think the IO-380 adds that much in terms of airspeed and still suffers from hypoxia like the IO-360.
Chris
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Kai
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Re: More performance?

Post by Kai »

Fred,

this is quite difficult to answer. I picked the IO-380, but here is what I really need:

1. a few mods: shorter wings, maybe a flatter profile
2. more power: preferably up to 300 HP from a diesel piston engine
3. no backseats, but more space for fuel, oxygen and baggage area

There is no reason why a DA40 couldn't fly nearly as fast as a Cessna 400 if you just change the engine and the wings. :D

Now, it seems a bit far off what I am asking here, but technically it is not. If there would be a market, they would do it. But I guess it is just so hard to unite all different preferences of the prospective clients into one airframe so that they just look for the lowest common denominator which is basically what we already have :(

For right now a DA40 is a good trainer in flight schools, has a reasonable range and speed for commuters, is cheap enough as an entry-level plane, but well equipped for advanced IFR-pilots as well as a reasonable plane for local flights and sightseeing. What would be left if we add a turbo? Less range and higher complexity will cut at least 2/3 of the market.

But yes: it would be great if we had more choices, more STCs for upgrades and mods.

10 kts, btw, don't make a difference to me. I just add more fuel and fly higher powersettings and can cruise an extra 10 kts :) Anything that gives me 50% more cruise speed at a reasonable range (5 hrs +res. ) would be something worth looking for.
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Tommy
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Re: More performance?

Post by Tommy »

How come I can't find an IO-380 on the Lycoming site?
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/
Am I missing something?

Without anything else being said, I voted for more horse power.
The long and short of it is, you use horse power more through all phases of flight. The same cannot be said for turbonormalizing or turbo-anything for that matter.
Complexity is also alot less with normally aspirated versus turbo.
Alot less dollars in all respects also.
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Gary
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Re: More performance?

Post by Gary »

Tommy wrote:How come I can't find an IO-380 on the Lycoming site?
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/
Am I missing something?

Without anything else being said, I voted for more horse power.
The long and short of it is, you use horse power more through all phases of flight. The same cannot be said for turbonormalizing or turbo-anything for that matter.
Complexity is also alot less with normally aspirated versus turbo.
Alot less dollars in all respects also.
It is actually the Lycoming IO-390. It is already available as a replacement for the IO-360 for Mooney M20E, M20F, M20J.
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/news-an ... ngine.html
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/news-an ... 6-09a.html
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Re: More performance?

Post by Tommy »

Got it. Now that makes sense. The IO-360 is about eight pounds heavier than the
IO-360 M1A. That would be perfect as far as I am concerned. I could use a little more weight up front to push my cg a little more forward. Probably move the cg 1/4" to 3/8" forward. That would be perfect. Minimal loss of carrying capacity, more horse power, 11.1 gph at 65% with my fifty gallon extended range tanks, it doesn't get any better.
Actually, this is probably the perfect engine for the XLS configuration.
Now, what does it take to get one on the plane other than $$$.
The cowlings would have to be re-tooled. The IO-390 is less than an inch wider but more than two inches shorter in length.
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Gary
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Re: More performance?

Post by Gary »

Tommy wrote: Now, what does it take to get one on the plane other than $$$.
The cowlings would have to be re-tooled. The IO-390 is less than an inch wider but more than two inches shorter in length.
A STC. Lycoming's Echelon STC program got it for Mooney. We should contact Lycoming asking them to get a STC for the DA40. This should be reasonable as the engine is very similar to the IO-360.

Per the Lycoming press release:

For information on the closest Lycoming Authorized Service Center, call 800-258-3279 and ask for Michele Demarest, Authorized Service Center Administrator or send email to ascadministrator@lycoming.textron.com.

Lycoming will continue to certify different versions of the IO-390 to fit customer requirements.
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Kai
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Re: More performance?

Post by Kai »

Gary wrote: A STC. Lycoming's Echelon STC program got it for Mooney. We should contact Lycoming asking them to get a STC for the DA40. This should be reasonable as the engine is very similar to the IO-360.

Per the Lycoming press release:

For information on the closest Lycoming Authorized Service Center, call 800-258-3279 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              800-258-3279      end_of_the_skype_highlighting and ask for Michele Demarest, Authorized Service Center Administrator or send email to ascadministrator@lycoming.textron.com.

Lycoming will continue to certify different versions of the IO-390 to fit customer requirements.
I love these ideas and it might be a good idea to have an STC for a future conversion. These kind of conversions make sense when the factory engine reaches the end of their life and need to be replaced. With relatively young planes as our Diamonds, this isn't that often the case.

As always with our DA40s, it will be hard to convince a manufacturer to work on an STC as the market is quite small. But why not giving it a try? Or do you think that Diamond is already working on it for future generations of the DA40?
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Joey
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Re: More performance?

Post by Joey »

How many Mooneys or Cardinals are out there compared to the DA40's? I know the DA40's by serial number are over a thousand. The IO-390 at 210 hp looks interesting when we come up to the first engine tbo, but that's 1600 hours away for me.
Joey Ritchie
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