Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

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dant
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by dant »

From the FAA Type Certificate:
The basic required equipment as prescribed in the applicable airworthiness
regulations (see Certification Basis) must be installed in the airplane for
certification.

In addition, the following items of equipment are required:
DA 40 Airplane Flight Manual, Document No. 6.01.01-E, dated July 15, 2006.
Maintenance Manual (including Airworthiness Limitation), Document No. 6.02.01,
dated January 9, 2003.
Is that the bit Dave is referring to, which says the equipment in the AFM and the AMM must be present?

Because it's worded like those manuals must be in the plane (?)
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midlifeflyer
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by midlifeflyer »

ememic99 wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:59 am According to current avionics market situation, if one strips off G1000, the only replacement would be G500TXi and GTN750/650Xi plus GFC500/600, so I don’t see why would Garmin be against such STC.
Would it? I haven't looked at their STC model list, but I wonder whether orohaned DA G1000 owners would be a good target for the Dynon Certified Skyview HDX as well as offerings from Aspen and Avidyne. No?
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ememic99
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by ememic99 »

DA40 is already on G500 and GTN FAA STC lists while nothing similar exists in Dynon, Aspen or Avidyne portfolio. There were some contacts with Dynon but nothing specific came out of it.
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by krellis »

Has anyone attempted to determine the legality of removing the G1000 system (installed by STC) and replacing it with the G3X Touch? The Garmin AML lists the DA40 as an approved model (with a note excluding G1000 equipped aircraft) - but if the G1000 has been removed, is the airplane now "acceptable" to be retrofitted with the G3X?

The G3X is very capable and I suspect a fully equipped G3X panel would weigh a lot less than the G1000 equipment. You could probably get rid of any nose weight since all of the G3X is located on or near the instrument panel versus behind the baggage area.
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by CFIDave »

dant wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:20 am From the FAA Type Certificate:
The basic required equipment as prescribed in the applicable airworthiness
regulations (see Certification Basis) must be installed in the airplane for
certification.

In addition, the following items of equipment are required:
DA 40 Airplane Flight Manual, Document No. 6.01.01-E, dated July 15, 2006.
Maintenance Manual (including Airworthiness Limitation), Document No. 6.02.01,
dated January 9, 2003.
Is that the bit Dave is referring to, which says the equipment in the AFM and the AMM must be present?

Because it's worded like those manuals must be in the plane (?)
The TC wording is somewhat ambiguous, but my interpretation is that the aircraft design is governed by the contents of the AFM and AMM, *not* that these manuals must both be carried in the airplane. We already know that the AMM is not required to be carried but the AFM is (remember the "O" of the ARROW acronym? see FAR 91.9).

But to investigate further, here's less ambiguous language in the "Equipment" section of the DA62 TC:
  • The basic required equipment as prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations (see Certification Basis) is listed in the Airplane Flight Manual and must be installed in the airplane for certification.
This says that if the aircraft manufacturer that holds the TC (e.g., Diamond) lists the equipment in the AFM, it must be installed in the aircraft.
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pietromarx
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by pietromarx »

A variety of equipment is described in the AFM, but there is no minimum equipment list. A lot of equipment mentioned in the AFM (e.g. LASAR ignition) isn't relevant.

Therefore, it is the usual FAA requirements around lighting, engine instrumentation, airspeed, etc. for VFR and IFR flight.

Each provider of a component will have desires over what they want installed. I am sure there will be a lot of guff from anyone you ask, though the legal requirements are pretty simple here.
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Rich
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by Rich »

pietromarx wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:29 pm there is no minimum equipment list.
This is explicitly listed in section 2.13 in my copy. But it does not generally reference specific make and model of equipment type.
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by pietromarx »

Rich wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:35 pm
pietromarx wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:29 pm there is no minimum equipment list.
This is explicitly listed in section 2.13 in my copy. But it does not generally reference specific make and model of equipment type.
This is not an MEL per se, which is usually built by an operator for a specific airplane.

It is a recitation of the JAR 23 requirements for VFR and IFR flight. For example, it mentions that the ammeter requirement is fulfilled by the VM1000, not included in the G1000 installations. From what I can see, the only addition that stands out (and I'm not a lawyer, etc.) is the requirement for a headset for night VFR. They also don't mention that the circuit breakers solve for the extra fuses requirement.

For the FAR 91.205 requirements, you can go see Cornell's lawyers at https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.205 for a list of the basic equipment.

Long story short, seems like the G1000 can be removed and replaced with whatever you want.
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Rich
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by Rich »

pietromarx wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:30 am
Rich wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:35 pm
pietromarx wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:29 pm there is no minimum equipment list.
This is explicitly listed in section 2.13 in my copy. But it does not generally reference specific make and model of equipment type.
This is not an MEL per se, which is usually built by an operator for a specific airplane.
I'm confused. This is a section titled "Minimum Operational Equipment (Serviceable)". In the US, I believe this constitutes the MEL, as interpreted by the FAA since it is in my AFM (downloaded POH is unofficial, BTW) and therefore applies. Other countries may have different perspectives. Some years back, the FAA took a position that raised a bunch of controversy. Many AFM's lacked this kind of specificity and there was a position that everything in the airplane had to be in working order or it was not airworthy. Having an actual MEL in the AFM is a defense against an enforcement of such a position.
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pietromarx
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Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by pietromarx »

I think we agree more than disagree here. As you mention, I've heard very different stories on MELs and light aircraft. I am sure whatever the reality is that ... well, the rules will be interpreted to press an argument for more, not less. And any defense provided by third-party documentation is welcome.

Regardless, the "MOE(S)" in the AFM is similar at a high level to an MEL that one sees in air transport aircraft, but the actual list provided by Diamond is generic and very closely matches the minimum required under JAR/FAR 23 and FAR 91.205 for VFR, night VFR, and IFR. A typical MEL that I've seen lists the specific equipment required for flight versus the generic equipage listed in the DA-40-180 AFM. Again, though, I am not a lawyer ...

Back in the regularly schedule programming, I'm not seeing anything in the "MOE(S)" / MEL / AFM / JAR/FAR 23 that prohibits removing the G1000 and replacing it with steam gauges and round dials if that's what you wnat.
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