NXi and airways

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LCBlue
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by LCBlue »

So I discovered this today flying a new DA40NG as well except on the east coast. My routing (relevant to this discussion) was CHOPS V16 DIXIE and only the VORs on the airway were showing up in the flight plan and not the intersections. I thought for sure this had to be a setting somewhere, but sounds like this is a “feature”. Has anyone heard anything back from Diamond on timeline to get this fixed. Plenty of scenarios where you’d want intersections on your flight plan!
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by Boatguy »

Diamond says it is fixed in the Phase III software which is supposed to be released by the end of the year.
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by photoSteveZ »

I had a possibly related dilemma yesterday when flying from Page to John Wayne (the first time I've landed at KSNA); we were initially cleared KPGA HEC V442 PDZ V21 SLI KSNA.

A few miles short of PDZ while descending off the end of Ontario's long runways, Approach comes back with an amendment: "Direct PDZ then the PDZ 270 radial intercept V363 then V8 to Seal Beach VOR." I've just switched approach frequencies for the second time in five minutes and the new controller is female, softer spoken and a little hard to make out. Say again?

It's severe clear and I've already picked out KSNA, but for the life of me I can't recall how to program the NXi for an outbound VOR radial, something I've never actually had to do in the air before. Did I mention the new-to-me DA62 is my first experience with a G1000? OK, well, at least I can go to HDG mode and turn to 270, but where the heck is V8 and where does it intersect V363? Both Foreflight on the iPad and the MFD are showing my originally cleared route, so the fact that V21 and V8 are coincident between PDZ and SLI is obscured by the routing graphics; it wasn't until this morning when I debriefed the scenario in my mind that I even discovered this important fact.

I give up trying to program the NXi and just fly the PDZ 270 radial, planning to intercept V363 (which I can see on the MFD) and ask for help if needed. Then, as Approach begins to vector me toward the Rwy 20R extended centerline, the NXi starts talking to me: "Terrain Unavailable!", the pleasant female voice yells in my headset*. A few seconds later, "Terrain Available!" Meanwhile, Approach is telling me what they want, but I can't hear what she's saying over the Garmin's "Terrain Unavailable!" "Terrain Available!" "Terrain Unavailable!". My wife told me later that she was having a hard time hearing the approach controller even before the Garmin started squawking in our headsets.

Now it's time to switch to tower, but to a different tower frequency than the one I've got sitting in the standby slot. More spinning of knobs. "Terrain Available!" Tower: "Diamond 1DA, I need you to..." "Terrain Unavailable!" Turns out that what the tower desperately wants from me is to slow down on final in order to squeeze out another departing 737; I've been watching as the previous departure is held on the runway and finally released, so I'm hustling down the VASI with power up and the gear still in the wells, about three miles out. Change of plans: gear down, power idle, slow to flaps speed, Flaps 1, slow some more, Flaps 2, mush along at 80 knots, add power to stabilize the approach. The 737 lumbers into position and awaits takeoff clearance; I'm about a mile and a half from the threshold when they finally get clearance and start their takeoff roll. "Diamond 1DA, cleared to land Rwy 20R caution wake turbulence departing 737." Roger that: dump the nose and increase to a normal approach airspeed. A prop single is just touching down on the parallel 20L; two 737s and a Beech 1800 are at the hold short line.

Touchdown, and Tower is already asking, "Say parking? Can you make the Hotel turnoff?" Roger that.

The ramp is a zoo, with parked jets everywhere, a taxiing Cirrus and a DA42 and I dancing around each other in a confined space, and half a dozen marshalers working the ramp at ACI Jet North. I finally spot the one who wants my attention and he maneuvers us into a narrow alleyway with parked airplanes on both sides: no parking slot, just a place to shut down and unload while they figure out where to put the DA62.

Welcome to Orange County! :) Is it always like this? :shock: ;)

* For reasons unknown, the NXi was intermittently losing GPS lock and then getting it back. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by CFIDave »

The G1000 (NXi or Legacy) was never designed to fly VOR radials in its Flight Plan. There's no good way to insert such a step.

You're unfortunately forced to manual procedures of tuning in the VOR and tracking the radial (switching over the HSI),
OR
Simply pick a heading that looks like it might be correct and "eyeball" your course on the MFD moving map, taking winds into account.
But expect your Flight Plan page sequence of steps to get out-of-sync with such a maneuver.

An airway INTERCEPT can be programmed into the Flight Plan. It requires you to 1) load the destination airway as if you were flying along it, 2) determine which airway leg/segment you're likely to intercept based on the vector/heading/VOR radial you've been directed to fly by ATC, and then 3) Activate Leg so the plane can join the airway where you intercept it. Sometimes you don't have time to do this, which may bring you back to the "eyeballing" technique using your MFD's moving map. (Conceptually this isn't that different from being vectored to an inbound approach course, where you're trying to determine the leg where you're going to intercept the inbound course, and Activate Leg to keep your GPS in sync.)

I've had rare occasions where I've been given an initial IFR clearance (while still on the ground) to fly from an airway to another airway without any intermediate intersection or waypoint where the airways crossed. In that situation, you may have time to consult your iPad map to find a GPS waypoint that's not too far from the airway-to-airway crossing, and program that waypoint into your Flight Plan.

As for the "Terrain Unvailable/Available" warnings that you were hearing as the plane lost/regained GPS position, one thing that might help is to enable 3D audio if your plane has the new GMA1360 (NXi Phase II) audio panel. This makes it easier to listen to ATC (or ATIS) that's coming mostly out of one side of your stereo headset when you're hearing multiple simultaneous audio streams.
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by jb642DA »

Check the low chart - how about programming PDZ direct RNDAL (RNDAL is a fix on the PDZ 270 radial at V363) direct PRADO direct POXKU (POXKU is at the V363/V8 intersection) V8 SLI ?
(you could also enter RNDAL V363 POXKU)

With a "wacky" clearance like this, I try to put in the first piece of the puzzle (PDZ direct RNDAL).
At least this way the "box" has me going in the right direction, giving me time to figure out the rest.
Once going PDZ direct RNDAL, you can type "RNDAL V363 V8 SLI" into foreflight (map page, search bar) and get a nice picture of what else needs to be done by viewing the low chart.



(My current plane has a pair of "old" Garmin 530Ws and a "six pack" - only way to input a victor route is to enter all the points on the route! Its a real PITA!
Plane is being updated to a G600TXi display, GTN750Xi Navigator and a G600 autopilot next month so it will be very close to the G1000NXi capabilities that we had in our DA62. CAN'T WAIT!!)
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by photoSteveZ »

CFIDave wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 8:59 pm The G1000 (NXi or Legacy) was never designed to fly VOR radials in its Flight Plan. There's no good way to insert such a step.

[...]

...In that situation, you may have time to consult your iPad map to find a GPS waypoint that's not too far from the airway-to-airway crossing, and program that waypoint into your Flight Plan.

As for the "Terrain Unvailable/Available" warnings that you were hearing as the plane lost/regained GPS position, one thing that might help is to enable 3D audio if your plane has the new GMA1360 (NXi Phase II) audio panel. This makes it easier to listen to ATC (or ATIS) that's coming mostly out of one side of your stereo headset when you're hearing multiple simultaneous audio streams.
Concerning your first comment, it occurs to me that we've been spoiled by GPS: in the old days that clearance (or the first part of it, at any rate) wouldn't have caused the helmet fire that it did.

As for the second thing, the 3D audio trick: that crossed my mind at the time, since I've been reading about 3D audio and the GMA1360 here on DAN. Unfortunately, my panel hasn't been upgraded to Phase II yet. About all I could have done was to crank up the COM1 volume, but it didn't occur to me in extremis. I just told Approach that her transmission had been stepped on...which was sort of true, even if I didn't have time to explain it. Besides, no one on frequency would have cared; to all the old hands, I probably just sounded like a rube in an expensive airplane.
Last edited by photoSteveZ on Sat May 01, 2021 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by photoSteveZ »

jb642DA wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:58 pm ...Once going PDZ direct RNDAL, you can type "RNDAL V363 V8 SLI" into foreflight (map page, search bar) and get a nice picture of what else needs to be done by viewing the low chart.
Ooh, I've got to try that. Foreflight's search bar is a great tool, but I never thought about using it to compute airway intersections on the fly, as it were.
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by Boatguy »

Steve - I can completely empathize with your situation. Crowded air space with very short legs is not a good time to be trying to figure out how to program the FMS. There are some good suggestions here from John and Dave, on which I'd like to build.

BTW, Chili4way can direct you to a good PC simulator for NXi.

We're used to loading up some waypoints, but ATC basically gave you an old school VOR routing. While as Dave says you can't program radials into the FMS, the G1000NXi is actually pretty easy to fly on radials with more of a piecemeal approach as John suggested. At the risk of sounding like a Monday morning quarterback, here is a sequence that you may find useful in the future.

- start with HDG 270 from PDX
- Load PDX into Nav 1, select Nav 1 on the CDI and dial up the 270 radial with the Course knob. Punch NAV and if you are anywhere near close, the AP will center you on the 270 radial.
- Synce the heading bug and temporarily switch the AP to HDG. Load POM into Nav 2, switch the CDI to Nav 2 and dial up the 164 radial, then switch the CDI back to Nav 1 and NAV on the AP until the Nav 2 needle is swinging to the 164 radial, then switch the CDI to Nav 2, ensuring the AP stays in NAV mode. The AP will enter on the PM 164 (aka V363)
- Load SLI into Nav 1, and repeat the procedure to temporarily use HDG mode load Nav 1 with the SLI 058 radial (aka V8). Then switch the CDI back to Nav 2 and ensure the AP is still in NAV mode.
- When you are about to intercept the 058 radial, switch the CDI to Nav 1, ensure the AP is on NAV and you'll be flying to SLI

They gave you radials, fly radials. You basically flip flop the nav radios. The course selected with the course knob will be stored with each Nav radio so you can dial it up in advance, using HDG mode to temporarily free up the CDI to dial a course up on the next VOR. This of course not something you want to do for the first time while in the situation where you found yourself, but it is something you can practice when assigned longer Victor airways.

I practiced this in my instrument training, but more recently ATC always gives me the same route (PXN and V301) from KSBA/KIZA/KSBP when returning to Northern California, no matter how I try to file and convince them to give me something else. So that last time they did it I flew it with the VORs while having the route loaded in the FMS. It was crazy to see how flying the VORs would be as much as 1nm of XTK error compared to the GPS course. I guess that's why they made the Victor airways 8nm wide.

So yeah, the FMS is only good with Victor airways and defined entry/exit waypoints. But you can ping pong the nav radios using HDG mode to have the AP fly radials and still reduce your workload pretty significantly.

LA is a crazy airspace. There are a few Diamond owners based there who may have some tips if you're going to fly there often. Try a PM to Colin.
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by photoSteveZ »

Wow, thanks for all the help, Dave, John and Russ. It's unnerving how complacent you can get with IFR routings; for the most part the system just serves up GPS fix to fix with a few Victor airways thrown in. When things are happening fast and they throw you a curveball, it's easy for a single pilot (i.e., me) to become overloaded, particularly in unfamiliar airspace. It's not as though DEN/COS isn't busy and complex, but it's my home and you get to know the patterns; I've only flown in LA airspace a couple of times previously, and never before into SNA.
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Re: NXi and airways

Post by jb642DA »

photoSteveZ wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 11:01 pm
jb642DA wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:58 pm ...Once going PDZ direct RNDAL, you can type "RNDAL V363 V8 SLI" into foreflight (map page, search bar) and get a nice picture of what else needs to be done by viewing the low chart.
Ooh, I've got to try that. Foreflight's search bar is a great tool, but I never thought about using it to compute airway intersections on the fly, as it were.
Steve -

Here's a pic from the map page of FF (on my iphone)-
FF_search.jpg
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