Another safe year for Diamonds

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waynemcc999
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by waynemcc999 »

Boatguy wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:43 am Automation is not evil, it is simply an aspect of the aircraft that requires mastery like every other aspect of the aircraft.
All of this "in the good ole days when pilots were real men" shit is nonsense.
Russ, I'm in full agreement... and so well said.
Thanks,
Wayne
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Lou
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by Lou »

While the fleet is much smaller, Rich’s point on overall safety applies equally in Canada. It has been at least 5 years since there has been a fatality or I believe even an injury involving a Diamond.

As for the video of the incipient stall, from personal experience I have learned not to trust ATC when they clear a slower airplane to land ahead of me - it is always followed by a request after 30 seconds to reduce speed. I have very nearly encountered the same situation. Now when this happens I reduce to a safe but stable speed immediately - no automation required.
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neema
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by neema »

Soareyes wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:58 pm
The Cirrus stall is benign as long as you are coordinated. Even a skidding stall is easily recoverable but beware of the slipping (base to final overshoot) stall. Knowing where the dragon lives helps to avoid it.
Isn't it the other way around? Skids are the dangerous ones in the base to final scenario
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TimS
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by TimS »

Soareyes wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:58 pm I'm pretty sure my DA40 saved my life one dark night while doing a go around for real. In a low, slow climbing turn from short final to avoid a mid-air collision with a plane taking off in the opposite direction, it was horrifying to look down and see an airspeed just above stall and the ball way off center. I had that same thought; Good thing this isn't a Cirrus.

Moving up to higher performance aircraft = risk increases, tolerance to error decreases.

The Cirrus stall is benign as long as you are coordinated. Even a skidding stall is easily recoverable but beware of the slipping (base to final overshoot) stall. Knowing where the dragon lives helps to avoid it.
The Cirrus has a lot more power, so you have to go crazy nose up to power on stall it. As such, the initial climb away performance of a Cirrus "feels" much better than the Diamond, and is much more reactive because it has so much more power. I never crunched the actual FPM delta, but I know I am less likely to consider stalling the plane because it is feels much more like it is climbing away.

Tim
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Rich
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by Rich »

TimS wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:21 pm The Cirrus has a lot more power, so you have to go crazy nose up to power on stall it. As such, the initial climb away performance of a Cirrus "feels" much better than the Diamond, and is much more reactive because it has so much more power. I never crunched the actual FPM delta, but I know I am less likely to consider stalling the plane because it is feels much more like it is climbing away.

Tim
I've never gone through with a power-on stall in my DA40. The nose is super-high and I can't see where I'm going and I chicken out. Nominally the DA40 and SR20 have the same power/weight ratio at MTOW assuming no Powerflow.
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Soareyes
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by Soareyes »

Soareyes wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:24 pm
Rich wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:09 pm
Soareyes wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:58 pm
The Cirrus stall is benign as long as you are coordinated. Even a skidding stall is easily recoverable but beware of the slipping (base to final overshoot) stall. Knowing where the dragon lives helps to avoid it.
The terminologies are reversed in your post. The overshoot results in a tendency to push rudder on the inside of the turn, resulting in a skid. But you are correct in that this is the more dangerous setup.
Oops, agree. Slipping good, skidding bad. Thanks for the correction.
neema wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:12 am Isn't it the other way around? Skids are the dangerous ones in the base to final scenario
Arrgh, rub it in. Brain fart on my part. Yes: Slipping good, skidding bad! :oops:
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Rich
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by Rich »

The low-speed handling characteristics for the DA40 (and presumably the DA20) are a big key here. It's max performance climb speeds lurk around the same as a C172, though the climb numbers are much better. This gives it better max angle-of-climb performance than if the max ROC values happen at higher airspeeds as with some other aircraft.

Twice I've had to abort a landing and climb out after having flared. Both happened at relatively light weights (solo plus full or nearly full tanks) and sea level. It happens these preceded conversion to the Powerflow. Climb out with full flaps both times. No big deal - nowhere close to a stall. 60-70 KIAS initially and away we go.

As far as climb, I've had occasion to depart Portland, OR with full fuel, 3 adults and the airplane stuffed to the gills (extended baggage and the remaining seat) with their luggage. Probably 2600 lb TOW. 1000 FPM at 80 KIAS no problem (I'm kind of lazy about maintaining best rate-of-climb since I really never seem to need it). This was after conversion to Powerflow.

In practice soft-field/shortfield takeoffs I've found I can peel it off the pavement at 40 KIAS at intermediate weights (~2350 lb.) or lower and it quickly gets up to 65 KIAS, which is in the best ROC ballpark window.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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blsewardjr
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by blsewardjr »

DA40 recently caught fire on the ground. Crew was able to get out safely -- http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main. ... 0798d8de15
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
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Rich
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by Rich »

blsewardjr wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:50 am DA40 recently caught fire on the ground. Crew was able to get out safely -- http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main. ... 0798d8de15
I saw this. I hope it shows up in the NTSB database where they come up with a more detailed analysis.
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brian5x5
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Re: Another safe year for Diamonds

Post by brian5x5 »

blsewardjr wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:50 am DA40 recently caught fire on the ground. Crew was able to get out safely -- http://aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main. ... 0798d8de15
Does that sound like it came from the brakes?
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