Zero-Zero Below and Out of Options - IFR Past Minimums

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waynemcc999
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Zero-Zero Below and Out of Options - IFR Past Minimums

Post by waynemcc999 »


The darn marine layer has come ashore over the entire region… and we’re short on fuel. What’s the plan, captain?! We shoot an ILS and an RNAV approach in the sim to practice this unlikely (and inexcusable) situation. In addition to good decision making to avoid this predicament, what are your thoughts on an emergency approach into a ground-hugging cloud layer? Thanks for flying with us. Wayne, GeezerGeek Pilot
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Colin
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Re: Zero-Zero Below and Out of Options - IFR Past Minimums

Post by Colin »

On an Angel Flight pickup I flew this approach into Santa Barbara. Conditions were reporting right at minimums. An airliner went missed. A bizjet went missed. Then it was my turn. I had the synthetic vision. I was quite well-practised in IFR at the time. I figured I would take a look since I had never had to leave an Angel Flight passenger on the ground. I crawled down through the clouds at 95kts. It seemed to take forever. Since the runway is so long I figured I'd hang out at decision height for the length of the runway and if it showed up late I could still land if I had 3k remaining. I never saw anything but the darker grey shadows of a few buildings. It was very sobering.

In my experience those weather conditions at KSBA usually mean Santa Ynez is clear.
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krellis
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Re: Zero-Zero Below and Out of Options - IFR Past Minimums

Post by krellis »

Colin wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:43 am On an Angel Flight pickup I flew this approach into Santa Barbara. Conditions were reporting right at minimums. An airliner went missed. A bizjet went missed. Then it was my turn. I had the synthetic vision. I was quite well-practised in IFR at the time. I figured I would take a look since I had never had to leave an Angel Flight passenger on the ground. I crawled down through the clouds at 95kts. It seemed to take forever. Since the runway is so long I figured I'd hang out at decision height for the length of the runway and if it showed up late I could still land if I had 3k remaining. I never saw anything but the darker grey shadows of a few buildings. It was very sobering.

In my experience those weather conditions at KSBA usually mean Santa Ynez is clear.
I'm sure it's just the risk-averse former airline pilot in me and I'm quite sure you know this too - but a precision approach with a decision height does not permit leveling at DH with the hope of seeing the runway. Frankly even a non-precision approach doesn't allow this past the MAP. The missed approach path is predicated on a predetermined climb rate away from the runway at either the DH or the MAP.

Now if we are talking an emergency situation where you have no other options, the use of the SV to get yourself to the runway is a viable option.
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Re: Zero-Zero Below and Out of Options - IFR Past Minimums

Post by jb642DA »

To start with, I completely agree with krellis!! As a follow on to his comments -


On a VFR day AND with a safety pilot, try hand flying an ILS down to 100 or 50' AGL. They get really sensitive the closer you get to the runway!! Don't cheat and "take a peek'!!! Do it on the gauges!

Also, if another plane is departing in front of you while you are "practicing this", be aware the LOC and GS "beams" can get wacky (check out the AIM about "ILS Course Distortion" - http://www.faraim.org/aim/aim-4-03-14-43.html
This is a GOOD reason to have a safety pilot with you!!

However, on "low IFR" days, there won't be any aircraft in the "ILS Critical area" to distort the guidance since the critical area is "proteced" when weather is below 800' ceiling and/or 2 miles vis (same part of AIM!) HOWEVER, this is at a field with a control tower!!

(a) Weather Conditions.

Less than ceiling 800 feet and/or visibility 2 miles.

(1) Localizer Critical Area.

Except for aircraft that land, exit a runway, depart or miss approach, vehicles and aircraft are not authorized in or over the critical area when an arriving aircraft is between the ILS final approach fix and the airport.
Additionally, when the ceiling is less than 200 feet and/or the visibility is RVR 2,000 or less, vehicle and aircraft operations in or over the area are not authorized when an arriving aircraft is inside the ILS MM.

(2) Glide Slope Critical Area.

Vehicles and aircraft are not authorized in the area when an arriving aircraft is between the ILS final approach fix and the airport unless the aircraft has reported the airport in sight and is circling or side stepping to land on a runway other than the ILS runway



No tower at the field??!! - hopefully our fellow aviators will RESPECT the ILS critical area markings on "low IFR" days!!


Since this topic is - Zero-Zero Below and Out of Options - IFR Past Minimums

......if the SHTF, you "can" land out of this situation in a "NO OTHER OPTIONS AVAILABLE EMERGENCY". There are many stories of planes "out of fuel and options" doing this.

Best thing is - don't get in this situation to start with!!
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Colin
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Re: Zero-Zero Below and Out of Options - IFR Past Minimums

Post by Colin »

In different circumstances I would have been a little more exact to the DH and going missed. It was daylight, the fog was only a hundred feet thick. I actually was pretty hopeful that the airliner would blow the runway clear, which has happened to me before with the marine layer. I fly in and out of SBA a lot (it's the perfect distance from SMO, where I trained, for a lot of operations), so I knew the surrounding environment really well. And I'm not really sure how long I was at DH before climbing. The tower, and approach control, weren't having people fly the missed, they were having you continue on the runway heading, and then either back toward the IAP or vectors out of the airspace toward your diversion airport.

At an airport with some terrain, if I was a little less familiar, or without the SV, I'd be a little stricter. So I agree with your risk aversion in general.

I once landed at SMO when they were reporting conditions at minimums and you could see two thirds of the runway just sitting there in VMC. It was night so the tower was closed. We never broke VFR setting it down, it was just an unfortunate position of a cloud and the sensors. I have been little skeptical about the METAR ever since.
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