Callsign at untowered fields

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smoss
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Callsign at untowered fields

Post by smoss »

For radio calls at untowered fields I have always used my regular callsign, or abbreviated version, such as Diamond 1XY after first announcement, and it seems that is most common everywhere I have gone. On Wayne's videos, however, I notice he and his friend typically use a generic callsign instead when making radio calls, such as white 182, or white Diamond Star. Is there a consensus on which is better or more typically expected? Obviously if there are more than one of a plane type in the area, they would need to distinguish by callsign.
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Steve
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields

Post by Steve »

I mimic the callsign usage I communicate to ATC. First call is "DiamondStar 432SC". Subsequent calls are DiamondStar 2SC (unless they are talking to an aircraft with a similar callsign, in which case I'd use the full number). First call with a new controller/center/frequency gets my full callsign.

So, at uncontrolled fields, first call is "DiamondStar 432SC", subsequent are "DiamondStar 2SC".
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields

Post by Rich »

I've noticed this trend at my home airport. I always use my call sign. Some will say something "red and white cub".

We often have several planes from a nearby flight school and they all use their call sign. This is a good thing because they're mostly all Cessnas. In addition, may of the students have heavy non-american accents and, being students, sometimes misreport their position. But they're OK with the call sign AND all these planes have ADS-B, so between their report and my FF display I can get a good idea where to be looking. Fortunately ADS-B seems to have been widely adopted around here, so this is much more common than not.

Absent ADS-B a registration number isn't really all that helpful. You're almost never in a position to actually read the other guy's number, so type and position are about all you can verify. On the other hand, we have several "yellow cubs" and "red and white cubs" based at the field, along with various high-wing Cessnas of assorted types.
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MackAttack
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields

Post by MackAttack »

For what it's worth, I fly a blue Carbon Cub (blue is not that common a color), so I usually announce myself as "Blue Cub 441JM..." etc. No reason you can't do both. Especially if you have a non-standard color airplane that might help.
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields

Post by Boatguy »

This is a great subject as I've gone back and forth between call sign and "white diamond". Many times I use call sign out of habit because that's what I'm always using with ATC. And I sometimes have to correct my calls because I'll end them with my call sign rather than the airport name.

Before ADSB I think the "white diamond" or "yellow husky" was a lot more useful. With ADSB and Flight ID on the MFD, it's less of an issue for me, but I still think "white diamond" is more useful to the other guy who most likely does not have a Traffic display showing Flight ID. And if the eyes are mostly outside, as they should be that close to the airport, then the "white diamond" is what you want to be sure they are trying to find in the sky. If they are close enough to read my call sign, they are too close.
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Rich
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields

Post by Rich »

I've had occasion to fly into the Arlington, WA EAA fly-in. This was back in the day when that was enough of a thing that a temporary control tower would be set up, manned by actual volunteer controllers. Phraseology of "<color>, <type>" was the officially sanctioned phraseology put in the NOTAM for the event.

I figure "Diamond 40XE" isn't such a big deal, since it only leaves out the color. And the majority of aircraft out there have white wings, anyway. Since we now have a CTAF that does is not shared with anyone around, often I will address another aircraft directly by N-number, so we're clear on who's following who. This is aided by ADS-B, of course. Things are actually pretty genial in the pattern here.

The only wrinkle is the occasional pilot who hasn't picked up on the CTAF frequency change that took place back on 3/26 of this year. :thumbsd: It was sneakily put on all publications as of that date and for awhile - before and after - was on the AWOS. :roll:
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields

Post by waynemcc999 »

smoss wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:14 pm For radio calls at untowered fields I have always used my regular callsign, or abbreviated version, such as Diamond 1XY after first announcement, and it seems that is most common everywhere I have gone. On Wayne's videos, however, I notice he and his friend typically use a generic callsign instead when making radio calls, such as white 182, or white Diamond Star. Is there a consensus on which is better or more typically expected? Obviously if there are more than one of a plane type in the area, they would need to distinguish by callsign.
Good question. I've bounced around on this... and I like Russ/Boatguy's point about ADS-B... so going forward I'm going to try to use "White Diamond Star 1WP" at uncontrolled fields.
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smoss
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields

Post by smoss »

At busy untowered places like Big Bear, it is now extremely helpful to have ADS-B targets all show up on MFD or ForeFlight, and correlate with radio call callsigns. There is a busy tour helicopter there that always announces as red (or yellow) R-44, but now I sure wish he'd include his callsign so I can correlate with what I see on the screen. I know looking out the window is the gold standard, but with how precise ADS-B is now, and almost universally installed everywhere I fly, I now put more faith in the screen than my eyes. With prior TCAS only, while helpful, the precision really sucked and could not be used for avoidance maneuvering, etc.
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Rich
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields

Post by Rich »

I do not consider solely "looking out the window" as the gold standard. Yes, it's necessary to do so, especially when traffic gets close. But if you have ADS-B in you should not fail to include that tool as well. More than 80% of your surrounding airspace at any given time is not visible looking out the windows/canopy.

The most recent US fatal accident in a Diamond was a DA20 run down from behind in 2016.
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields

Post by Boatguy »

Rich wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:38 pmThe most recent US fatal accident in a Diamond was a DA20 run down from behind in 2016.
A pair of FedEx turbo props come into my airport in the late afternoon on weekdays. Six weeks ago they were descending onto me and of course flying faster as I was between the FAF and airport. We were both making calls, but clearly did not see me, either visually or on their screens (who knows what they have) and didn't seem concerned that I was on a 4nm final and they were on 5 and descending faster than the glide path. I called them by their call sign and they backed off and sequenced behind me.

At my airport there are planes with no ADSB, gyrocopters and ultralights with so much background noise their radio calls are very difficult to understand, and a few NORDOs. Just because I can see lots of traffic with call signs doesn't mean I'm seeing everything or that anybody else can see me.

I think Wayne's suggestion of color/type/sign covers all the bases.
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