Callsign at untowered fields
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- waynemcc999
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
Russ... "I called them by their call sign and they backed off"... I love it !!
Wayne
Wayne
Wayne McClelland
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
- danno2000
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
From FAA Advisory Circular 90-66B, for what it's worth.
10.3.1 Self-announce transmissions may include aircraft type to aid in identification and detection, but should not use paint schemes or color descriptions to replace the use of the aircraft call sign. For example, “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, TWIN COMMANDER FIVE ONE ROMEO FOXTROT TEN MILES NORTHEAST” or “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, FIVE ONE ROMEO FOXTROT TWIN COMMANDER TEN MILES NORTHEAST,” not “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, BLUE AND WHITE TWIN COMMANDER TEN MILES NORTHEAST.
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/med ... 90-66b.pdf
best,
dan
10.3.1 Self-announce transmissions may include aircraft type to aid in identification and detection, but should not use paint schemes or color descriptions to replace the use of the aircraft call sign. For example, “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, TWIN COMMANDER FIVE ONE ROMEO FOXTROT TEN MILES NORTHEAST” or “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, FIVE ONE ROMEO FOXTROT TWIN COMMANDER TEN MILES NORTHEAST,” not “MIDWEST TRAFFIC, BLUE AND WHITE TWIN COMMANDER TEN MILES NORTHEAST.
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/med ... 90-66b.pdf
best,
dan
- smoss
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
So nice to chat about something besides politics. Thanks everyone!
Steve
DA40 XL
DA40 XL
- CFIDave
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
To make matters even more confusing, the large flight school Aviation Adventures (that operates out of 5 different airports in the Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC: Manassas, Leesburg, Warrenton, Stafford, and Winchester) somehow convinced the FAA that they could use "Sky Ventures" as their callsign over the radio -- instead of their N-number or aircraft type. This was apparently done for marketing reasons.
Each of their planes is numbered sequentially, so their radio callsigns are simply "SkyVentures 1, SkyVentures 2, SkyVentures 3,...etc.
Three of the 5 airports they operate from are non-towered, and the remaining 2 have only limited tower operation hours. So when flying near any of these airports, I have no idea what type of aircraft to look for out the window (they even have a few Diamonds including a DA42) when they announce over the radio.
BTW, when flying our DA62 I'm always "Twin Diamond six two delta victor" over the radio.
Each of their planes is numbered sequentially, so their radio callsigns are simply "SkyVentures 1, SkyVentures 2, SkyVentures 3,...etc.
Three of the 5 airports they operate from are non-towered, and the remaining 2 have only limited tower operation hours. So when flying near any of these airports, I have no idea what type of aircraft to look for out the window (they even have a few Diamonds including a DA42) when they announce over the radio.
BTW, when flying our DA62 I'm always "Twin Diamond six two delta victor" over the radio.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- Boatguy
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
San Carlos Flight Center does the same thing. All of their planes are Bayflight 1, Bayflight 2, Bayflight n...
- DaveS1900
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
As already stated above by Dan, adding color to your announcement is non-standard and specially discouraged by the FAA.
But... since we are on the topic of "in-the-pattern". I have heard people at various airports make a call mistake. Just after takeoff and climbing out you are on the "departure leg" not "upwind". I have heard an increasing number of people call just after departing the runway they are upwind, which is not correct. This happened recently to me when I was with a student and the student was looking in the wrong spot for the other airplane.
Dave S
Ohio
But... since we are on the topic of "in-the-pattern". I have heard people at various airports make a call mistake. Just after takeoff and climbing out you are on the "departure leg" not "upwind". I have heard an increasing number of people call just after departing the runway they are upwind, which is not correct. This happened recently to me when I was with a student and the student was looking in the wrong spot for the other airplane.
Dave S
Ohio
- greg
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
In Australia, where landing fees are charged based off radio calls, a common practice is to use... someone else's call sign!
- midlifeflyer
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
The FAA recommends full call signs.OTOH, many pilots choose the alternate of type and color on the theory that if another aircraft can read your numbers they are too damn close, so it's better for identification. The advantage of using call signs is for other pilots to call you. We are simply used to referring to call signs. "27J, 45X will extend downwind for you allows more consistent communication everyone understands. Personally, I'll use one of the other or a combination depending on context.
- waynemcc999
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
I do pretty much what Mark does (and he's an instructor, so that's cool). My habit is... "<xyz> traffic, white Diamond Star 1WP, <location>, <intention>, <xyz>". Reflecting on the topic a bit, with fewer yellow cubs (or any non-white base color) than 50 years ago, dropping the color (and adhering to that part of the FAA recommendation) probably makes sense.midlifeflyer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:25 pm The FAA recommends full call signs.OTOH, many pilots choose the alternate of type and color on the theory that if another aircraft can read your numbers they are too damn close, so it's better for identification. The advantage of using call signs is for other pilots to call you. We are simply used to referring to call signs. "27J, 45X will extend downwind for you allows more consistent communication everyone understands. Personally, I'll use one of the other or a combination depending on context.
However, at my age there's no way I will even try to remember all 5 characters (let alone 6 internationally) of the call sign for a handful of aircraft in the pattern, and therefore I STRONGLY disagree with the FAA (but who am I?) and I'm going to continue to use just the last three characters.
So it might take me a hundred flights, but I'm going to try to drop color and just do:
"<xyz> traffic, Diamond Star 1WP, <location>, <intention>, <xyz>".
BTW -- the thing I find MOST DANGEROUS about these radio calls is when the pilot drops the concluding <xyz>. At least in California, there'll be 5 or more airports in radio range, all with CTAF 122.8 (or whatever)... and I wasn't fully listening with he/she gave the initial <xyz>.
Wayne
Wayne McClelland
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
PPL/IR, 2008 Diamond Star DA40-XLS 40.922, KSBA
Photo logs of PilotsNPaws | Flying Doctors | Angel Flight | YouTube @GeezerGeekPilot
- Rich
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Re: Callsign at untowered fields
A larger problem is too many airports in range with the same CTAF. Often, it's not bad among planes at pattern altitude but those calling in when still out and well above can be a real challenge. Stepping on each other.
And crappy radios. Some guys are still flying around with 50-year old equipment that barely works.
And helicopters. For whatever reason those things are commonly way noisier on comms than FW.
And crappy radios. Some guys are still flying around with 50-year old equipment that barely works.
And helicopters. For whatever reason those things are commonly way noisier on comms than FW.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5